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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Mar 1968

Vol. 233 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Vote 44—Army Pensions.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1968, for Retired Pay, Pensions, Compensation, Allowances and Gratuities payable under Sundry Statutes to or in respect of Members of the Defence Forces and certain other Military Organisations, etc., and for Sundry Contributions and Expenses in connection therewith, and for certain Extra-Statutory Children's Allowances.

This Supplementary Estimate for Army Pensions is for a net sum of £10,000. As Deputies will see it is expected that the expenditure under Subheads H and L of this Vote for 1967-68 will exceed the amounts provided. Savings to the extent of £12,340 are expected elsewhere in the Vote.

The anticipated excess on Subhead H is due to the granting of a greater number of special allowances than was foreseen. The grant of these allowances has been accelerated due to the large number of qualified applicants who are over the age of 70 years and are regarded as incapable of self-support by reason of age. As regards Subhead L the position is that only a token amount was provided for special lump sum compensation payable to or in respect of members of the Defence Forces who served with the United Nations Force and who were killed or wounded or who died or were disabled as a result of disease contracted during such service. Lump sum payments to the extent of £8,350 have been made. There will, in due course, be a refund by the United Nations of the amount involved.

We on this side of the House agree to the Supplementary Estimate. We also agree to the first heading of £14,000 for those who served this country in the dark and evil days, who went out in 1916 and helped to get for us the freedom we enjoy here today. We know that when these people went out to fight for our freedom, they did not expect at that time any financial reward. It is only right that we in this House of Parliament should remember those people and their actions. The fact that we have an Irish Parliament today and that we sit here in this Parliament is due to their taking arms at that time to help to free us. We on this side of the House are in favour of this extra expenditure of £14,000.

It is only right also that we should treat as well as we possibly can those members of our Defence Forces who served with the United Nations and who were killed or wounded, or who died or were disabled as a result of disease contracted during such service. I should like to state in that regard that we are being very unfair to at least one particular case. I have taken up the case of one man with the Minister for Defence, and I am sorry to say so far I have not been able to get anywhere, due to a technical point. Am I entitled to raise a particular case?

I made representations on behalf of James Scally, No. 809771, 2 Harbour Cottages, Mullingar, who was in the Army and who was in the Congo in 1961. This young chap was 22 or 23 years of age, as fine a specimen of a man as you could see in Ireland. He was engaged to be married. He was to go off sentry duty at 6 o'clock in the evening—I am not too sure of the exact time—but the other battalion had not turned up and he was asked to remain for another hour. He remained on and was shot during that time. From 1961 to 1967 he has been in and out of hospital and had four operations. He was discharged from the Army in March, 1967. He is receiving only about £5 per week, and he got no compensation despite the fact that as an active young man he is ruined for life. He has lost the use of his left arm and is 90 per cent disabled. Our Army has refused to give him any gratuity although he is so disabled and is the sole support of his mother and a young sister.

The Department wrote to me on 4th October, 1967 and said:

A Chara,

With further reference to your representations on behalf of ex-Private J. Scally, 2 Harbour Cottages, Mullingar, who was wounded in the Congo in December, 1961, and was discharged from the Defence Forces in March, 1967, I am desired by an tAire Cosanta to say that Mr. Scally is in receipt of a temporary award of wound pension under the Army Pensions Acts at the rate of £4.11.6d. per week based on a degree of disablement assessed by the Army Pensions Board at 70%, at his medical examination in May, 1967. This is the maximum award payable in Mr. Scally's case having regard to the terms of the Acts and the degree of his disablement as assessed by the Board...

I am to add that it is regretted that Mr. Scally is not eligible for the payment of an ex gratia lump sum as his discharge from the Forces took place more than four years after the date he received his wound.

In this matter the Minister is relying on the fact that the claim was not made within four years, but the reason he could not make the claim was that he was in hospital during this time. However, he disputes that and has given me a copy of a letter which he sent and which was headed as follows: "809771 Pte. Scally, James, No. 2 Hospital Coy., St. Bricin's Hospital, Dublin, 7." It is dated 25th October, 1965, and was sent to the "Injuries and Claims Dept., UNO, through O/C., St. Bricin's Hospital". He went on to say:

Sir,

I respectfully submit my claim for compensation for injury received on the 18th Dec., 1961, while serving with the UNO Troops in the Congo.

He goes on to relate the history of his case. I again communicated with the Department in November, 1967, and pointed out that on the 25th October, 1965, Private Scally wrote to the Injuries and Claims Department through his O/C in St. Bricin's Hospital claiming compensation for injuries received on 18th December, 1961, while serving with the UNO troops in the Congo. I gave the injury as GSW in the chest, which are Army terms. I also pointed out that he got a reply to that letter stating that he could not get compensation while still serving but to renew his claim when he had been discharged. I further stated in the letter that he did this when he was discharged on 23rd March, 1967. I pointed out I thought he had been most unfairly and unjustly treated

Here is a man who writes to the Minister's Department before the four years are up and gets a reply stating he cannot claim until the four years have expired. Then when the four years have expired, the Department write and inform him that he is not entitled to a gratuity or a lump sum because his claim has not arrived until four years after he has left the Forces.

I received a further letter from you on 27th of November, 1967, in which you stated:

With reference to your further representations on behalf of ex-Private James Scally, 2 Harbour Cottages, Mullingar, who is in receipt of a wound pension under the Army Pensions Acts, I am desired by an tAire Cosanta to say that Mr. Scally's case has been reviewed and he has been awarded a final pension at the increased rate of £5 16s 6d per week with effect from 13th October, 1967. This is the maximum award payable to him having regard to the terms of the Acts and the degree of his disablement, viz. 90 per cent, as assessed by the Army Pensions Board at his recent medical examination.

Here you have, on your own assessment, agreed that a man in his prime of life is 90 per cent disabled. He is a member of our Army who volunteered for and went to the Congo and was wounded in the Congo and because of some technical point he is refused any lump sum. The man as I pointed out, is engaged to be married but he cannot get married, nor can he enjoy life like any other young man because he is 90 per cent disabled. It is a disgrace and I should like the Minister to look into this case. I am prepared to let him have the correspondence which I have. The only thing I can do now, and which I do not want to do, is to take the matter up with the United Nations, but, as I say, I do not want to do that if I can get any redress here.

This particular case is the only matter that calls for a reply in relation to this Supplementary Estimate. I am glad that the Opposition Parties have received the Supplementary Estimate in the way they have and that they are in favour of it being passed because of the services that have been rendered by the members of the Specified Organisations and the Army in their contribution of services to the United Nations cause. In relation to the case raised by Deputy L'Estrange, it is not easy of course to reply in detail to a case raised in such a manner in the House without having the files here, but I should like to point out in a general way that the Minister and the Department of Defence are not free agents in the payment of pensions. Deputy L'Estrange has pointed out that the Army Pensions Board found this man, who received a gunshot wound in his chest during service in the Congo, 70 per cent disabled.

90 per cent. They first found him to be 70 per cent disabled and on the last examination agreed that it was 90 per cent.

The amount of pension is based on the degree of disablement and we are bound by that percentage. In relation to Deputy L'Estrange's statement that the claim could not be entertained because it was not received until after the four year period, he is slightly in error in that. The fact is that in cases such as this a soldier must be discharged from the Army within the four year period before the claim is a valid claim. It is a matter, of course, into which I can inquire to see if we can do anything to alter the situation. I cannot say any more than that at this stage in relation to the matter. If the Deputy has any information on his file which he thinks the Department should have, we will be glad to get it.

I am prepared to let you have the whole lot.

I will make inquiries into the case and see if I can do anything to have the matter rectified. It is not easy to meet an individual case in an exceptional way.

There is only one other point: your Army officers know if a man is to be discharged before the four years that he is entitled to a gratuity and a lump sum and perhaps it would be only natural that they should keep him—I am not saying that this was done but it was said to me that it seemed strange—a month or two beyond the four years.

No, it would not happen for that reason.

It is a pity to see this young man. If he got a few thousand pounds even, he would be able, as he said, to start a little shop or something like that, but as it is, he is trying to keep himself and his mother on £5 and it is a disgrace.

As I say, I will look into it.

Vote put and agreed to.
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