asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will introduce legislation for a complete reorganisation of CIE in view of the continuous heavy demands being made on the public and the Exchequer.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Reorganisation of CIE.
26.
The necessity for the recent increase in rates and fares by CIE arises from increases in costs of labour and materials which would not be affected by organisational changes.
Arising out of that reply, does the Minister not agree that CIE is badly in need of reorganisation so that there could be some more streamlining and co-ordination in that company in view of the increase in demands on the public by way of increased fares and the need for subsidy by the public? Does he not agree something should be done to try to bring this company more up to date and avoid any waste or loss?
Evidently the Deputy has not read the numerous statements I have made and CIE have made about organisational changes that have taken place in the last five years and in the previous five years and of the economies and increase in productivity of the service. If the Deputy was to read the Pacemaker Report, 1963, which gives a detailed picture of the working of CIE and of its economic sections and uneconomic sections, he will find very useful information in that. There may have been minor changes since that time in the problem of public transport but basically that Report still holds good as a basis for examination as to whether any major organisational changes would be fruitful. If the Deputy would read that Report and the statement by the General Manager of CIE on the reasons for the increase in the charges, I think he would agree with me that no organisational changes would affect the position of CIE in that the railways cause the major deficit. All railways in Europe are now losing money and the loss on CIE is not due, so far as I know, to any lack of measures of economy or reorganisation.
Would the Minister come off his high horse? For goodness' sake, will he come off his high horse? Do not consult the heads of CIE but listen to me for one second. Consult the ordinary working people of CIE and the people who have used CIE for years. They are the people to advise you and not the heads of CIE.
We cannot have a speech on this Question.
I will give you one example——
Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
(Interruptions.)
Discuss it with the ordinary working people of CIE.
In reply to the Deputy, there is a joint consultative organisation in CIE in which management and staff engage in discussion. The discussions include talks on minor grievances on the part of staff. They also include proposals for the more economic working of CIE. If the Deputy were to read the reports of these discussions he would find there one of the finest examples of communication between staff and management in order that the staff can give the management of CIE the benefit of their advice. The discussions between staff and management take place all over the country at regular intervals and are an excellent example to private industry.
Are you prepared to answer me——
Will Deputy Spring please resume his seat?