asked the Minister for Education what is the present total shortage of national teachers by comparison with the number required to achieve his Department's target for size of classes.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Teacher Force.
95.
I would refer the Deputy to my reply of 23rd July, 1969, in relation to this matter.
As stated therein the goal which has been set is that there should not be more than 35 pupils in any class. As we have now an average of one teacher for about every 32 pupils it will be seen that if maximum utilisation of the existing teacher force could be secured then no additional teachers would be required.
Any estimate of additional teacher requirements must take cognisance of the fact that while maximum utilisation is not likely to be achieved the extent to which it can be achieved has been vastly increased by the policy of closing small schools and securing larger school units.
As the effect of this policy is a continuing one, it would be mere conjecture to base an estimate on it at the present time. What is certain, however, is that we have now reached the stage that due to increased recruitment close on 200 teachers in excess of normal requirements will be turned out annually.
This coupled with the implementation of the policy to which I have just referred will enable us to reach our goal in a reasonable period of time.
Would the Minister agree that his answer represents an unusually long-winded way of saying he has not got this information? Would he say why he has not got it when such a shortage was estimated in the Second Programme and why he has not, in fact, kept up with that programme?
I explained to the Deputy that the average number of pupils per teacher is 32. I also pointed out to him that through the amalgamation of small schools more teachers are available. I also stated that about 200 teachers in excess of normal requirements will be turned out annually. It is fair to conclude from this that we are, in fact, achieving our objectives and will achieve them in a reasonable time.
The question is "What is the present total shortage of national teachers?" Is the Minister aware that in the Second Programme this figure was given?
I explained to the Deputy——
Could the Minister answer that question?
I am aware of many different types of figures. I am concerned with the number of pupils per teacher. I explained to the Deputy but, perhaps, he wants it explained again——
No. Is the Minister aware that in the Second Programme the number of thousands of teachers we were short was given? Could the Minister say what the figure now is so that the House can assess the progress made? We would like to know how much progress has been made.
Is it not obvious that we are making progress?
What is the shortage now?
Is it 1,000 teachers?
Is it 3,000 teachers?
Would the Minister be allowed to answer?
I said in my reply "As we have now an average of one teacher for about every 32 pupils it will be seen that if maximum utilisation of the existing teacher force could be secured then no additional teachers would be required."
I pointed out that it was not possible to get maximum utilisation of the existing teacher force but that we are proceeding rapidly in that direction. We are also providing for about 200 teachers annually above the normal requirements.
Is it in order for the Minister to repeat a non-answer instead of answering the question?