Labhair an Teachta Herbert inné. I nGaeilge a labhair sé ach ní raibh a fhios agam ag an am gurbh í an chaint a rinne sé a chéad óráid sa Teach so. Óráid an-mhaith ab ea í agus dá bhrí sin deinim comhghairdeas leis. Tá súil agam gur minic a bheidh an Teachta Herbert le cloisteáil againn sa Teach seo.
I was not aware last night that the speech I heard from Deputy Herbert was his maiden speech. I should have complimented him on it. I apologise now for not doing so. It was an excellent speech. He spoke in Irish and I hope he will continue to speak in Irish in the future. His contribution was a worthwhile one.
Deputy FitzGerald will, I think, go on record as having said more than anybody else on this very important subject of education, but I was very impressed with what Deputy Tunney said. His father came from my own county and I think he must have passed on to his son a little of the Mayo touch. Deputy Tunney certainly showed a grasp of the problem. I understand he is a teacher. He pulled no punches. He was not afraid to tread on people's corns on such controversial items as salary and conditions. It would be worth the Minister's while and that of his officials to read Deputy Tunney's contribution because of its depth and the reasonableness of his approach. If we could achieve the objectives set forth by Deputy Tunney and Deputy FitzGerald we would have a worthwhile educational policy.
Last night I paid a well-deserved tribute to the older generation of teachers, both lay and clerical. Lest it might be thought that I was a bit more generous on the clerical side as against the lay, let no one run away with the idea that the lay teachers in the past did not make a very important contribution to education. They were out and about amongst the people. They laboured in the face of great obstacles and difficulties. Many of them had to walk long distances in the old days, sometimes five or six miles. Later they had bicycles and later still they got cars.
In the old days the teachers, and I have been a witness of this, cycled five or six miles to school on wet mornings, and stayed there until 4 p.m. or 5 p.m., helping their pupils in every way. They had none of the modern aids like radio or television. It was all hard work and they merit a high place in Heaven. They were really wonderful people and I have personal experience of it. Out of meagre salaries and allowances they provided pencils, copybooks and on many occasions even food for the poor, and they could ill afford it. I am not trying to take from the present generation of teachers but today there are social benefits and other things. Maybe we protest too much.
The Minister, referring to primary education, said that £25,258,000 was being spend on education this year, an increase of £796,000. It is a slight increase but it is fortunate that it has been possible to provide it in this time of credit squeezes and financial difficulties. I should like to see the amount substantially greater but, of course, the Minister, like his colleagues, had to go to the Minister for Finance to bargain with him as hard as he could to get all he could for the various proposals put forward.
I think that in the national schools in recent years—I have a good knowledge of them because there are a number near me—the children are getting far better opportunities to learn than in times gone by. First of all, most of those schools in my area have central heating. One may ask what that has got to do with education. It has a lot to do with it. So have proper toilet facilities and other such amenities, because when children are comfortable at school, when they are not shivering from the cold, they can learn much better. Furthermore, electric lighting has been installed in practically all our schools and if the day is dark and a child has defective vision, the light can be turned on. These are all advantages from the children's point of view and I hope they will be continued and extended. However, as I have said, the increase of £796,000 does not seem sufficient. As I have said also, perhaps the Minister for Education was not able to persuade the Minister for Finance to give him more.
A controversial subject in many areas is the closing of small schools. A former Deputy of the House, Deputy Calleary, went around with me to try to iron out this problem and we found it a very delicate and difficult operation. Very often we found that what I might call troublemakers in an area got whispering campaigns going. They were people usually who had no children going to school themselves but, perhaps, they owned a local shop and had some vested interest. God bless the chemists, if ever you meet one of those fellows you are in real trouble. It seems the mother occasionally sent a note with the child going to school to get some odds and ends and, therefore, the chemists had a vested interest. Deputy Calleary and I worked in co-operation as best we could because we considered it was to the advantage of the people in the area to put aside sentimentality, the grá-mo-chroí attitude, because the fundamental objective was to try to get good education for the children. I am glad to say we were successful. For instance, a school was closed within a mile of me and I did not hear a word of protest. The school bus was provided and I was afraid the mothers would be out in front of it. Not a word was spoken.
I feel this is for the good of parents and children and far be it from me to lecture them on how they should educate their children. I never go beyond giving a word of advice when I think it is needed. According to the Minister's figures, which are useful because they show the way the pendulum is swinging, 724 schools were closed, 390 of them one-teacher schools and 307 two-teacher schools. I sincerely hope that some of the problems confronting parents, church authorities, teachers and so forth will be ironed out. This is progress and I have seen it work in my area.
It should be appreciated in this context that some of the older generation had greater ties with their national schools than may be the case today. Many of them may not have had the advantage of a good basic education. Many of them went to England and to America. They came back and there was a lot of sentiment attached to the old school. Now, however, many of them are getting around to the idea that in a central school there are more advantages to be gained for the children—more efficiency, better staffing arrangements, different teachers for different subjects. People are beginning to realise that a lot of the changes taking place are worthwhile and in the long term are in the interests of the people, particularly the children.
Recently there was to be a meeting with the Minister for Lands on the question of a local school. It so happened that he was absent and I dealt with the problem myself. It was a question of dealing with trivial problems. There was even a suggestion of closing the school.
I said that I could make a good political football out of this, and as a politician turn it to my advantage but I advised them that all this marching and protesting would not further their children's education. I advised them to take up the matter with the Department. This was done. I had only to throw a match to the powder and off it would have gone but instead they brought the matter to the notice of the Department and their reply was satisfactory. They were able to meet them and the expenditure involved was quite small. Therefore it would be a good thing if somebody with an even temper and some influence in the locality would get in on these things and instead of being concerned with the vested interests of, say, the chemist or the local shopkeeper, point out that the all important thing was the education of the children and that a lot of good would come from the proposal.
The idea of keeping record cards in respect of pupils in the fifth and sixth classes is very good. It helps to keep parents, and the teachers in the next school, informed as to the aptitudes of the children concerned which is a very important point. It is very important that at that stage "tabs" should be kept on a child when he goes to another school, whether it would be a vocational school or a secondary school, so that the teacher would have an idea of the child's capabilities. Anyone who rears a family will know that children, even in the same family, have different aptitudes. One girl may like needlework and baking while another girl would find them abhorrent. The same applies to boys. It is very important that their aptitudes should be channelled in the right directions. I know how unsatisfactory it can be if a young man finds himself in the wrong job. I had a relative who started as a teacher but is now a dentist. He spent four years teaching and he was glad to get out of it and, as I say, he is now practising dentistry. Those four years spent as a teacher were lost to him and this was because his father pushed him into this profession which he did not want to pursue. We have too much of that and the card system will do something to rectify the position. It will benefit the child, the parents and the teachers in the new school which the child attends.
No matter how good a school may be it is wellnigh impossible for a teacher, whether cleric or lay, to advance the child unless the parents are involved in education. It is sad if parents are not involved and lack of involvement cannot be readily or easily compensated for. Where parents are not really concerned or interested it is just too bad. The parents' interest should be encouraged to a very great degree. I hope that the Minister will be able to communicate this either on radio or on television to the parents and appeal to them to become involved for the benefit of all concerned.
The Minister also dealt with special courses for principal teachers in national schools and said that last year some 600 attended these courses and that he is optimistic that the figure will go up this year. I regard this as progress which is very necessary. The world is changing and we must change rapidly with it. But while we may take note of all the new developments around us there are a great many old things to which we should cling. I am referring in particular to our Gaelic culture and language and all such things. It would be sad if, while we are developing, any of these wonderful things were lost in the process. The question of compulsory or non-compulsory Irish has been raised. Neither I nor any member of my family ever experienced any difficulty in learning the language. It is a pity that parents in the main try to downgrade the language. If you visit Germany you hear the people speaking German. The people of every nation speak their own language. I suppose certain agents from abroad like to downgrade our language but whenever I meet that view I give them their answer. I am sure the Minister will do likewise.
The question of career guidance is of great importance. I have a first-class opportunity of observing this. I know the parents and the children in my area and as I told the Minister last night three buses pass by my door every school morning going in different directions. My children went to the local national school which is on the side of the Ox Mountains and in Foxford, the nearest town to me, there is a newly built secondary school; in Swinford a mile or two away there is another secondary school. The school in Foxford is run by the Sisters of Charity and the school in Swinford by the Sisters of Mercy. I am well aware that long before we got free education many of my neighbours paid the school fees of £10 or £12, which I suppose was a lot of money, and there was a sort of tradition that if the mother went to the Convent of Mercy in Swinford the daughter went there also. I suppose this would apply throughout the country. There are two first-class vocational schools, one in Swinford and one in Ballina, where according to my information you cannot get standing room. I do not want to be critical but I do want to protest about the delay in carrying out the extensions to the Ballina school where the position is serious and were it not for the reopening of Corballa school in county Sligo which was able to take some of the overflow from Ballina, we would probably be reading about the position in our newspapers. Many children could not be accommodated. I would ask the Minister to see what can be done about providing the necessary extensions in Ballina.
Swinford vocational school has made remarkable progress in recent years. I speak on behalf of all the children in the area and not because a member of my family attends the vocational school there. In this respect, I agree with Deputy Tunney's remarks. The children have made remarkable progress. My son, who is attending the vocational school, passed his examination with honours. That shows that if a child is given the opportunity of following his preference in respect of a school it can prove a great advantage because the child is happy when he goes to school in the morning. I hope my son will sit for his leaving certificate. Next year, I expect that there will be from 20 to 25. People have discovered that their thinking has in some cases been wrong. They now realise that the education available in the technical school is not second-rate or third-rate but is suited to the requirements of the pupils. Swinford has always been a centre in that respect.
Traditionally, there has been emigration and migration from that area to Britain. The majority of the people who went had no education beyond the primary school. It would be an invaluable help to such young people who emigrate if they could receive training in a technical school before leaving this country. They would be skilled workers, then, and would be able to take jobs other than digging, building construction and other unskilled occupations. When a child leaves the technical school, every effort is made by the teachers to secure a job for him or her in this country.
I do not wish my remarks to be construed as taking, in any way, from the magnificent work of the teaching orders. I merely wish to draw attention to the very real benefits available through technical education for children who partake of it. For instance, we are short of technicians. We must provide work for our own people rather than import people from abroad for certain jobs. I recall the appeal of a priest on television one night—I think he is at Shannon Airport—to those in charge of education to realise how necessary it is that our young people, before emigrating, should receive training in a technical or other school. He had noticed that, when workers were engaged on building sites, the Irish boys had the pickaxes and shovels. When the white-collar workers came along, his congregation at Sunday Mass began to change: at that stage, the foreigners came. He appealed to those responsible for education in Ireland to give our young people a new deal by changing the system. Incidentally, he expressed appreciation of what was being done.
Career guidance is very important. The choice of career is a decision which a person may have to live with for the rest of his or her days. This has been the cause of many young people turning to drink. They felt they were failures in life. If young people are well-equipped educationally they can face the world courageously.
On the question of vocational education I wish to say something about our young girls. This country earns over £90 million a year from tourism. More could be done to provide bettertrained personnel to staff hotels and guesthouses. Many young girls study French and Latin. That is all right, but these girls might be more suited to domestic economy training. That is where career guidance could help in a big way. Parents could also help because they understand their children. I am speaking from experience. One girl in my family followed a domestic science career which other members would find repugnant. In a family one girl may have a preference for domestic economy.
We have the finest food in the world in this country. Quite often in hotels one will find that due to bad handling the food is spoiled. Recently in a town of about 6,000 people I stopped for a meal. I had a steak which was not properly cooked or presented. It cost me 15s. I would not mind the price if the food had been handled properly. This kind of thing leaves a bad impression on people coming into our country. Girls with an aptitude for hotel work should be encouraged to pursue a career in that line. I am convinced there are jobs in hotels and guesthouses which would be better for the girls than having to emigrate. We must also keep up nursing and teaching staffs. If a girl wishes to become a nurse or a teacher she should be encouraged to do so.
More use could be made of television for educational programmes. There are some educational programmes in the middle of the day and some on Sundays. If it were possible after consultation with the Minister, the parents' organisations and the teaching organisations, I should like further programmes to be shown at suitable times. Children are very fond of watching television. It is a medium which could be used to their advantage. It could prove a very suitable medium for improving the education of our children.
I would like the Minister to take particular note of a little storm which is looming on the horizon. I know something about a little school at Behy near Ballina. The parents in the region have got together. People in and around this area near Ballina have traditionally sent their children to that school at Behy. They are determined to continue to send them to that school. When these people are determined they are used to digging their heels in. Some of them are civil servants while others are business people or members of the farming community. They had proposals at a rather advanced stage. The local engineer or architect of the Office of Public Works in Ballina was dealing with this case. I do not wish to mention the name of a reverend gentleman who is trying to press ahead for some action. I would be glad if, at the earliest possible date, the Minister and his staff would pay particular attention to this case. I gave the reverend gentleman an assurance that if I got an opportunity I would put down a Dáil question or raise the matter in the course of the discussion on this Estimate. I gave the parents an assurance that I would raise this matter.
