asked the Minister for Education if he is aware of the growing concern among parents over the possibility of a strike by the Association of Secondary Teachers; and if he will indicate what measures he will take to prevent such action.
Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Secondary Teachers.
19.
After various forms of negotiating machinery had been tried and after prolonged discussions with all the teaching bodies it was left to me to frame proposals which would go as far as possible in meeting the conflicting claims of the three teacher organisations. I issued my proposals in July last with an intimation that it was my intention to implement them. In most respects they have already been implemented. Negotiations in regard to the implementation of the remaining proposal, that relating to the creation of posts of responsibility in secondary schools, are proceeding. I feel that the proposals of July last when fully implemented should be accepted by all teacher groups as providing a reasonable solution for all the problems involved.
Is the Minister aware of statements made to the effect that the members of the Association of Secondary Teachers are planning strike action?
I have been aware of the whole salary situation for the past year and have done my utmost to bring about a reasonable solution.
Will the Minister give the House and the public, and also the parents of the children, an assurance that there will be no strike and that the children will have a continuing course for the certificates? This is a very serious matter.
I should hope there will not be a strike but I cannot give the House an assurance that there will not be a strike. What I said was that I have done my utmost to satisfy the conflicting claims of the various teaching bodies and this was set out in my proposals which I am at present implementing.
Would the Minister not accept that his proposals still involve taking back from teachers something which had been given to them and that proposals of that kind cannot conceivably be acceptable to any group of people, any more than the proposal to take back part of the 10 per cent was acceptable to the public service? Would he be prepared, to avoid a recurrence of a strike at this stage which would give rise to very grave concern to parents throughout the country, to negotiate and discuss the matter rather than to lay down his solution and leave it at that? Is he prepared now to enter into discussions to try to find a solution, and would he not at this stage take up the suggestion I made in the debate last March that, in view of the complications created by past decisions of the Department of a self-contradictory character, the only way to tackle this is to go back to first base and to start at the beginning again with all three bodies to devise a structure which would be fair and satisfactory to all of them? Would he not agree that there is in the statements of these bodies already a basis for such an agreement?
Listening to Deputy FitzGerald one would imagine that I had not had discussions with the teachers. He is fully aware, I am sure, that over the last year and a half I have had constant discussions with them and ultimately because of the fact that I could not get agreement between the three bodies, I had to put forward my own proposals and I stated that I was implementing those proposals. At the moment we are at a rather delicate stage in relation to the question of posts of responsibility in secondary schools. As I mentioned, I have discussed this over the whole period of a year and a half and I found that in the end I could not get agreement so I had to do the best I could to try to meet the conflicting claims of the various bodies and this was embodied in the proposals I put forward and the proposals which I am at present implementing.
Has the Minister any request for a further meeting with these bodies?
No. In fact, I requested a meeting with the ASTI and I had that meeting.
The Minister has no request for a further meeting from any of the teaching organisations at this moment?
No.
Would the Minister consider having a meeting with them so that this strike will not take place in January or February as they have planned?
If it were as simple as that there would be no problem.
I am concerned that the parents are disturbed over their children——
Of course. Does the Deputy imagine that the Minister is not concerned with the fears of the parents?
I would hope that the Minister would not wait until the strike has taken place. Would he have discussions now?
We cannot have a discussion on the whole matter.
It should be obvious to every Deputy that there is not a perfect solution to this particular problem. I repeat I have had discussions over the past year and a half with the teacher bodies in relation to this but I could not get agreement and ultimately I had to make proposals which I felt went as far as was possible towards meeting the conflicting claims of the various bodies. These are the proposals which I am at present implementing and I feel that I made a reasonably good job of it.
Would the Minister not accept——
Question No. 20. We cannot discuss this question all evening.
——that although he put forward proposals in good faith and I am sure he felt they did provide a basis for solution, the fact is they have not and must we not now start negotiating again before the strike? Would he not see the teaching bodies and reopen the matter and try to get a solution on an agreed basis?
I am prepared to meet the teaching bodies at any time but if this matter were as simple as the Deputy seems to think it is we would have had it solved long ago. The Deputy is very well aware that what is satisfactory to any one group is not satisfactory to either of the other two groups and therefore to endeavour to change the particular proposals I have formulated would mean that one or more of the three bodies would feel aggrieved. I had to try to put proposals before the teachers which I felt, and the news media also seemed to feel, were reasonable proposals.
Is the Minister now saying they are unchangeable?
Would the Minister consider asking the association to defer any action pending further discussion? Would it not be better to discuss at length rather than have a strike?
I have discussed this at length and I will continue to discuss it——
Would the Minister ask them to defer strike action?
Question No. 20. I am calling Question No. 20. The Minister for Local Government.
Is the Minister now making the extraordinary statement that he has said the last words and that this is unchangeable?
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 20. I will allow no further supplementaries. Would Deputies please resume their seats? I have called Question No. 20.
This is a very serious subject.
The Minister has said this is unchangeable.
What I said, and I have said it on many occasions, was that if the three groups of teachers would come together and come to a particular agreement themselves——
Not necessarily the Minister's?
——within the confines of the amount of money that is available for this purpose——
That is just it.
Let me add this— since this matter was raised previously in the Dáil I have added £500,000 to it to come to this arrangement.
Question No. 20.
Would the Minister——
I am calling Question No. 20. Would Deputy FitzGerald please resume his seat and allow questions to continue?
In view of my inability to get answers to questions I should like to raise this matter on the adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.