asked the Minister for External Affairs whether he or his predecessors have been given to understand that there is no possibility of Ireland being considered for an association arrangement with the EEC.
16.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
15.
asked the Minister for External Affairs whether formal or informal proposals were made at any time that Ireland be accepted in a form of association with or be permitted to negotiate a separate trading agreement with the countries of the EEC.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 16 together.
Our application has from the beginning been for membership of the EEC as this was the course which it was considered would best serve Ireland's interests. An association or trade agreement with the Community as an alternative to membership, even if it could be negotiated, would not permit us to develop our full potential.
Is that the view of the Minister or of the Commission?
Our decision was to seek full membership. No view of the Commission was sought on that. The question is raised as to whether we did seek opinions on associate membership from the Commission and I explain our position on the basis that at no time did we seek associate membership because our decision was for full membership on the basis of the information available. I am sure the Dáil will be aware that when the negotiations for enlargement were suspended, the question of negotiating some form of trading arrangement in the interim period was explored with the Commission but it was made clear at that time that any bilateral exchange of preferences would not be available from the Commission so long as we maintained our present position on the British market.
Since association can take different forms and can be of different degrees, did the Minister or the Government not consider it worthwhile to explore officially the idea of association? The Minister said that the Government made up their own minds but would he not consider that, even now, it would be a good idea to explore fully the possibilities of association?
There is nothing to attract us to association. As the Deputy is aware, under associate membership there would not be available any benefits such as are available under the common agricultural policy in full membership; also, we would be excluded from decision making although the decisions would affect us very definitely, particularly in matters of trade.
Regarding the Deputy's question in relation to our seeking the opinion of the Commission, in October, 1969, the Commission expressed the view that association or preferential treatment would not normally be contemplated except with countries who could not become full members. They did say also at that time that countries which took less than full membership in certain cases might have to comply with a decision affecting their interests, a decision in the taking of which they had no part.
Is the Minister saying that the Department, in fact, gave no serious consideration to the question of association? Is he saying that the Department ruled out this possibility and did not, therefore, examine or explore the possibility of association?
No. The Deputy was not listening. I was asked by Deputy Corish if we had sounded out with the Commission whether association was available and the answer is "no". I said that we ourselves, having examined all the alternatives available, decided that association did not have attractions for us and that full membership would be Government policy.
Having listened very carefully to the second part of that reply, the Department unilaterally ruled out discussion on association and decided that the alternatives offered by association were not attractive enough to be examined seriously.
The Deputy has, I think, something wrong with his head. I did not mention the Department at any stage. This application was made in 1961.
I was speaking about the Department in locus——
This application was made in 1961 by the Government as a result of information made available to the Government by the European Economic Community and at least four Departments studied and analysed the situation. As a result of that the Government made a decision. I am sure the Deputy could not possibly think that a Department would make such a decision.
Is the Minister saying, therefore, that the present application and its presentation is founded on the thinking of 1961? Is that what the Minister is saying?
No. The Deputy has not been reading my speeches.
Which ones?
I recently said that, before the application in 1961, we studied fully the possible alternatives and decided to apply for membership. Since then we have reviewed that decision and we have had no reason to change it.
I am not convinced that the Minister examined the association idea.
Both were examined, membership and association.
17.
asked the Minister for External Affairs whether, in view of the fact that when the UK withdrew her application to join the EEC Ireland withdrew hers and accepted the role of trading independently and outside the EEC, he will now state the factors which have so altered Ireland's financial position that an independent trading position is no longer possible.
Ireland's application for membership of the EEC was not at any time withdrawn and the Deputy's question does not therefore arise.
On a question that does not arise, may I ask a supplementary? Could the Minister say whether or not Ireland would proceed with her application for membership if Britain decided that the terms were not acceptable to her? The Minister should go back over the speeches he has made in the past six months and he will remember all the advantages he portrayed for both agriculture and industry. If Britain decides to withdraw her application what will this Government do?
If the negotiations between Britain and the Community are not fruitful or are unproductive there will be a totally new situation then for Britain and the other applicants. The decision to enlarge the Community was a Community decision and without this decision the four applicants would have had no business making their applications again. If the negotiations with Britain break down the Council of Ministers will have to decide whether they will continue with their policy of enlarging the Community and the completion of the Community because both are closely tied together. If they decide to continue with their policy of enlargement without Britain, then we will have to consider what our position will be and analyse all the effects of that in so far as we can. At the moment the probability is that the enlargement of the Community by the addition of the four applicants will go ahead.
Is the Minister saying now that the Community are concerned only with Britain and, if Britain is out, they will disregard the other three?
No. It is the Deputy who is concerned with Britain. The Community have never separated the four applicants except before the Hague meeting when there was a question of Britain joining on her own and bringing the Community up to seven. The Deputy will remember we had to engage in a great deal of activity at the time to make sure our interests were protected. At no time have the Community raised the question of what will happen if Britain does not succeed.
I am calling Question No. 18. We cannot discuss this question all evening.
This is very important. Could the Minister say what new factors, if any, there are for adopting a different approach if Britain does not proceed with her application? We have the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement, as a result of which our economy is depending more and more on Britain. What changed factors would the Minister see for us if Britain does not go in?
The possibility of the failure of Britain's negotiations does not, I think, actually present itself. The opportunity of joining Europe may never present itself again and, should the possibility to which the Deputy referred arise, we would have to give very serious consideration to it. We would be turning our backs on what I consider the greatest opportunity ever presented to this country.
Question No. 18.
I would like to ask the Minister——
I cannot allow any further questions on this matter. Question No. 18.