asked the Minister for Finance whether he will indicate the general criteria adopted by him in the appointment of members to boards of State companies under the aegis of his Department.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - State Company Boards.
12.
In making appointments to the boards of State-sponsored bodies I aim to choose persons who will bring useful experience and ability to the boards concerned.
Has the Minister ever contemplated the idea, even on an experimental basis, of employees of a few State bodies to start with having a say in the appointment of directors on the board of those bodies? This would get away from the rather old-fashioned method of appointment which is open to the charge of political patronage. When we talk about employees having greater commitments and participation in their employment, should we not have them involved in the question of the appointment of directors?
There have been some appointments which might be said to conform roughly with what the Deputy has in mind but, before making any major changes like that, one would have to establish that the present system is not working satisfactorily. I do not think that has been established.
Would the Minister not agree that the time has come to review the whole method of the appointment of directors to semi-State bodies? Like many other things this has been going on for a number of years. Would the Minister say that at least there is a case for the whole question being reviewed?
This system is looked at from time to time. It has been looked at fairly recently.
For what purpose?
The result was the same.
Order. I am calling Question No. 13.
Would the Minister agree that it is a bad procedure when we see a person whose appointment has not been renewed, defending his position on a political basis without much regard to the competence of anybody involved in a particular appointment? Further, would not the Minister agree that it would go a long way towards restoring confidence in State enterprise if these appointments were made with reference to the employees involved and giving them a say in who should be on the board of directors?
Surely the Government have already done this in the case of a nominee to the Board of CIE who happened to be a member of the Labour Party and who is still on the board of that company.
One swallow does not make a summer.
(Interruptions.)
One fact I referred to earlier in reply to a supplementary put by Deputy O'Leary was that there are a number of State boards whose members include representatives of the trade unions. I think Deputy O'Leary was going a bit further than that and I so indicated in my reply. However, Deputy Moore is correct in what he says but this does not apply only to CIE but is the position in relation to a number of State boards. Certainly, the case has not been established that the system we operate is inefficient or is not working and until a situation approaching that stage has been established, I do not think we should contemplate any major change.
Would the Minister be prepared to lay before the Oireachtas the result of the studies to which he has just referred?
I will not.
Why not?
Because it is entirely an internal matter.
Internal to whom?
Internal in my Department and I happen to be the Minister for Finance, if you do not mind.
The Minister represents the State and not himself.
If I, as Minister for Finance, decide that certain State activities should be considered within my Department, that is my responsibility. If I decide to do my job in that way there is nothing to object to. It is an indication that I am doing my job but the matter is entirely an internal one.
The Dáil has no say in the matter?
Surely the Minister is putting it on a wrong basis. The Minister is, and must be, responsible to this House for his actions.
I accept that fully.
I am calling Question No. 13.
Surely the Minister is prepared to accept that there is widespread public cynicism and concern about the party political nature of very many of these appointments and surely in that context and particularly when the Minister is supposed to have responsibility for the employees of these bodies whose members may not include trade union representatives, there should be consultation with employees in relation to the appointment of directors. Therefore, would the Minister, as a matter of public propriety, please accept the need for major reform in this area?
Question No. 13.
I do not accept that there is any widespread public cynicism——
Yours is not the party of reality.
——among the public in this matter. Furthermore, I would say that many of the people concerned on State boards are doing an extremely good job and are working much harder than they would work for anybody else for the kind of money they are paid and we ought to have some regard to that. I would point out also that the appointment of people when a Fianna Fáil Government are in power seems to make them political hacks but when they are appointed during the term of office of a coalition they cease to be such.
Is the Minister speaking about the Mount Street or the Letterkenny Fianna Fáil?
It is a question of the official or the provisional.
(Interruptions.)
I am calling Question No. 13. We must move on.
I merely want to make the point that the system of appointment could be reviewed for the benefit of all concerned. I am not making any statement of any kind.