asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the alleged brutality of subcontractors from County Mayo who employ young people in this country to go potato picking in Scotland; and what action he proposes to take in this serious matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Treatment of Potato Pickers.
25.
The allegations have been investigated by the Scottish police and at their request statements have also been taken by the Garda from persons who returned from potato picking in Scotland. I am informed that it has been decided that there is insufficient evidence at present to institute criminal proceedings. The police authorities are continuing their inquiries.
Is the Minister aware that statements were made in the Press that those subcontractors who were exploiting those workers came from Achill Island, County Mayo? Would the Minister state what part of Ireland these subcontractors come from?
I do not know that it would do any good to say where they come from. There are subcontractors but I should not like to say here anything I would not be prepared to say outside the House or name anybody. I deplore what has happened and an investigation is being carried out. There is a report by Father Cassidy which will be published and there is an investigation being made by the Scottish police and the Scottish Department of Agriculture. I shall have fuller information in, perhaps, a week or so. I do not think it would be desirable for me to name anybody. I know that some people who have already decided that certain people are guilty of this want them named in this House but I will not do it.
Why were proceedings not taken against a contractor who kidnapped a youth from my constituency? The police recommended proceedings should be instituted.
(Interruptions.)
This is a reflection on the people of Achill. I am fully aware these subcontractors have come from several counties in this country.
I see what the Deputy means. I thought he was asking me to name them.
No.
(Interruptions.)
Is it not a fact that in the case of certain subcontractors engaged in this activity it was recommended that proceedings be instituted against one of them for the kidnapping of a boy from Portlaoise some time ago and that no proceedings were instituted even though this was a most serious offence?
There is fairly widespread belief that there has been pretty low behaviour in recruiting people who are not able to take care of themselves, bullying them and so on. These people are unwilling to give evidence and are, perhaps, afraid of being beaten up. They are probably unwilling to give information about those for whom they work. Certainly, it is not easy to get evidence but it is generally believed by those who have inspected the areas and those who live there that there are people who are not, perhaps, mentally capable of taking care of themselves being thoroughly blackguarded by subcontractors.
In view of what the Minister has said and what the investigations have revealed, is there any machinery open to the Minister by which he could dissuade young people or inexperienced people from going to these places?
Yes, give them work here.
I think the Minister for Labour has legislation going through the Seanad at the moment to control the activities of agencies.
A Deputy
Would the Minister not agree that to give them work here would be the solution to the problem?
I do not think that is the problem.
Deputy Coughlan wishes to put a supplementary question.
I wanted to let the know-alls talk first. Will the Minister take the initiative in this matter and not depend on reports from any individuals other than those sent from his own Department to make on-the-spot inspections? I have heard these reports and I have gone to see for myself. I do not want to denigrate any person but I ask that what is to be done should be done and let the book be closed. My suggestion is that the Minister for Foreign Affairs with the Minister for Labour should see to it that all those who have been exploited and intimidated—that is beyond yea and nay and the Minister has admitted it; I know it has happened despite what the Scottish police say: exploitation and intimidation have taken place and the Minister knows this——
The Deputy is making a long speech.
Will the Minister now take steps to regularise the position and see that these contractors from the west of Ireland—and I will name them——
I do not think names should be mentioned.
Were there any from the south?
They are from the west of Ireland and I know them. I do not go by the Sunday Times, I go by what I have seen for myself. Will the Minister ensure that every person employed by these subcontractors is registered as employed by the contractor concerned? Will he also ensure that these employees are treated as human beings with regard to social welfare benefits and habitation and sanitation requirements? From what I have seen these people are living in botháin, cow houses, byres, bothies, or whatever you like to call them. I want a guarantee from the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Labour that they will co-operate willingly with the people concerned in Scotland, who are anxious and willing to co-operate if only they would get co-operation from the Irish Embassy in London and from the Department of Labour.
That is quite a question. We cannot have a discussion on the matter.
This is very important.
I am glad to know how long a question one is entitled to put.
The Deputy should know all about long questions.
They are never half as long as that.
The Deputy should understand that what has been said has been said as a result of a thorough investigation which other people failed to do.
A long journey can merit a long question.
I mentioned that the cases which disturbed Father Cassidy and Father Walsh were cases where people were not able to take care of themselves. This does not cover all the workers who go to Scotland. There are certain definite cases. I was not referring to all the people who go to Scotland.
Would the Minister consider a stop-over in Glasgow on one of his frequent visits to the EEC?
If there is a Fianna Fáil cumann I will go there.
There are many people from Ireland there.
Are there any dissidents in that Fianna Fáil cumann?
(Cavan): Would the Minister consider that the withdrawal of the dole recently from the type of people mentioned by him, that is people who might not be able to look after themselves, might not have coerced them into taking up this undesirable employment under dreadful conditions?
The problem is of about ten years standing.
It is about time the Government followed it up.
I am calling Question No. 26. We cannot have any further discussion on this matter.
Will the Minister confirm that he received a registered letter from me? Will the Minister assure the House that he will contact the Secretary of State for Scotland, Mr. Gordon Campbell, and co-operate with him so that the exploitation of these unfortunate people will cease now and for ever?
I am calling Question No. 26.
I want an assurance in this House that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Labour will co-operate in an effort to stop this exploitation.
The Deputy should sit down on his laurels.
I have spent a great deal of time on this investigation and I am going to see that justice is done by the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Labour. Will the Minister give an assurance that he will co-operate with the Secretary of State for Scotland so that every worker will be registered, treated as an employee and not as a contractor, given sufficient to eat and proper housing conditions in which to live?
I think the Minister should give that assurance.
The House should know this has been going on——
For ten years.
It is time it was stopped.
The people were so intimidated and kept away from anyone to whom they could communicate their troubles that it has not come to light until now. The Deputy can be assured that we will do everything we can.
The Government have been co-operating with the British for years.
Will the Minister send an inspector from his own Department?
(Interruptions.)
I will not accept what I read in today's paper.
Will Deputy Coughlan please cease interrupting? I am calling Question No. 26.