asked the Minister for Transport and Power whether he proposes to publish a White Paper on transport; and, if so, when.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Transport White Paper.
26.
We have had a considerable amount of transport legislation in the Dáil in recent months. The Road Transport Act, 1971, has introduced significant changes in the road haulage regime which should affect the future pattern of internal and international haulage of goods by road. We have also had the British and Irish Steam Packet Company Limited (Acquisition) (Amendment) Bill, 1970 which provided the occasion for a discussion not only on the affairs of the B & I Company but also on more general aspects of the cross-Channel trade and the relationships between the various undertakings involved in it both here and in Britain. Following the interim legislation to deal with the CIE deficit situation last year, a comprehensive review of the financial affairs of CIE is at present being carried out and I envisage that further legislation may be necessary arising from this.
All these measures have been framed within the general policy of achieving adequate and efficient transport services to meet the needs of communication, trade and tourism both internal and international. Transport is going through a period of great change at present and the courses which we adopt in specific sectors and at particular times must take account not only of our own needs and circumstances but also of developments on the international front. Consequently, we must retain a degree of flexibility in the formulation of future policy and avoid the rigidity of specific formal plans. Moreover, our transport situation would be affected by our entry into the European Economic Community and the development of the Community's common transport policy.
Would the Minister agree that the normal practice, when there are substantial changes in policy, is to publish a White Paper, and his concept of avoiding the rigidity of formal plans and therefore not telling us what the policy is is one that is not acceptable to Parliament?
I disagree with the Deputy completely. I have not only the experience of my colleagues but my own experience and the changes in methods and utilisation of transport have been so rapid and the predictions in regard to them have been so inaccurate in many cases that the idea that the Minister could present a White Paper indicating what he thought was to be the policy for sea, land and air transport, and stick to that policy, is absolutely ludicrous.
Mr. O'Donnell
Would the Minister not agree that in view of the rapid developments in transport to which he has referred it is essential the Government should have some overall plan for transport development? We should not have had haphazard legislation which is unco-ordinated and unconnected. As the basis for developing an overall plan would the Minister not agree that a White Paper indicating Government thinking on transport is desirable?
I do not agree that the policy has been unco-ordinated.
Mr. O'Donnell
Absolutely.
The road freight legislation was linked with what was regarded as the possible effect on CIE of the present trend in regard to CIE road traffic. The B & I legislation was also linked with the report presented by a firm of consultants on methods by which there could be some collaboration and rationalisation in regard to cross-Channel transport. As far as Irish Shipping are concerned the policy is quite clear and determined. It does not need to be related to sea and inland transport. In regard to air traffic the pattern is constantly changing and at this moment the Government have already approved plans up to 1973 and the matter is being examined again.
Mr. O'Donnell
Is it not a fact that some of the State companies—for example B & I and CIE—are in direct competition with each other?
That is a separate question.
The Harcourt Street railway line was well planned ahead.
The question asked was about future transport policy.
Is it not a fact that the closing of many of the branch railway lines was, as I suggested six years ago, an act of lunacy?
I entirely disagree with the Deputy on that. May I make it clear that, perhaps, the House has not had the benefit of looking at all the predictions in regard to the changes in traffic. Some of the predictions have been correct and some of them have been widely short of the mark. There have been changes in the volume of rail passenger traffic, changes in the volume of rail/road traffic, changes in air traffic. There has been an explosion in the use of container traffic and unitised traffic which was predicted by nobody and, whatever figures there were, nobody could have guessed the ultimate result. This has in turn created a change in the utilisation of certain harbours and a growth in road freight traffic in some harbours with a decline in others. The whole of this has taken place in the past five years. I do not believe that before entering the EEC when we will have again to look at the EEC traffic, it would be really advisable for the Minister, unless he discovers he can do it and at the moment he cannot do it, to predict the likely changes in all these various types of transport so that he can commit himself to a co-ordinated policy.
Would the Minister not agree that you do not need to be able to predict the exact flow of traffic five years hence in particular areas to have a transport policy? Would he not agree that he apparently misconceives what a transport policy is and would he tell us whether the total abandonment of planning in the Department of Transport and Power, which he has just announced, is to extend to the other Departments also and whether the concept of planning has been totally abandoned by this Government since the Third Programme?
As a responsible Deputy, the Deputy is just trying to do cheap politics in the way he has queried me.
That does not answer the question.
(Interruptions.)
I have already indicated that the Minister has taken a number of serious decisions in regard to various aspects of transport policy in the past two or three years and I took decisions before him and they relate to sea, inland and air transport. They relate to airport development and to air traffic development and I cannot see any evidence that separate decisions in which every effort was made to co-ordinate one decision with another has done any harm to the general traffic pattern in this country.
With respect, nothing the Minister has said has answered my question.