Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 Nov 1971

Vol. 256 No. 11

Social Welfare (Insurance Inclusions and Exclusions) Regulations, 1971: Draft Order.

Minister for Social Welfare (Mr. J. Brennan)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the Draft of the Regulations entitled Social Welfare (Insurance Inclusions and Exclusions) Regulations, 1971.

The purpose of these regulations is to give the full protection of the Social Welfare Act to sick or disabled persons employed in rehabilitation work by local or public authorities. Hitherto such employment with these authorities was not insurable under the Social Welfare Acts except for occupational injuries purposes and, as a result, title to other benefits was liable to be impaired through lack of contribution by the employment in question. Representations have been made by the persons concerned, the organisations involved in rehabilitation, and by Deputies to amend the relevant provision.

Dr. O'Connell

Would the Minister have a copy to pass around?

Mr. J. Brennan

Of what I am reading?

Dr. O'Connell

Yes.

Mr. J. Brennan

No. I shall pass on this. It is only a short statement. I undertook in the House to have the statutory basis of this exemption examined with a view to determining whether its retention is justified. The exemption is contained in paragraph 7 of Part 2 of the First Schedule to the Social Welfare Act, 1952 which was added by the Social Welfare Insurance (Inclusions and Exclusions) Regulations, 1952. Under this provision employment by any local or public authority of a sick or disabled person with a view to his rehabilitation is exempted from all insurance under the Social Welfare Acts except for occupational injuries benefits. The particular category of employment which brought this question to notice is that of park ranger with Dublin Corporation where the men concerned are receiving a wage which in the normal course is equal to that paid to many insurable categories but who feel they are risking the sacrifice of entitlements under the Social Welfare Acts while in the employment in question and paying no social welfare insurance contributions.

These regulations will restore such employees and others employed by local and public authorities on a rehabilitative basis to full insurance coverage.

Mr. R. Barry

Like the other Deputies present, I am at a disadvantage in not knowing exactly what the Minister said. His being a Donegal man and me a Cork man might help to explain some part of the difficulty but I take it the Minister must have found some flaw in the Social Welfare legislation that he now wishes to remedy. Is that so?

Dr. O'Connell

We do not know what the Minister has been reading. We thought he would have passed on a copy of it.

Mr. J. Brennan

The order amending the regulation in question is on the Order Paper. It is as simple as this. Deputies raised the matter in the House previously: persons employed by local authorities for rehabilitation purposes have been exempt from paying weekly contributions. This was done at a time when it was felt that it would be an inducement to the local authorities to employ persons requiring rehabilitation. We now have complaints from the people concerned since they can be, and sometimes are, deprived of the benefits of contributing and I am anulling the regulation which exempts them. That is the explanation in my best Donegal accent.

Mr. R. Barry

I thought I heard Deputy O'Connell and Deputy Tully and, perhaps, others on those benches making this complaint during the discussion on the Social Welfare Bill and I am glad the Minister has seen his way to remedy it.

Mr. Desmond

I welcome the Minister's decision to introduce the amending regulation under subsections 4 and 5 of section 4 of the 1952 Act. As one of the Deputies who made direct representations to the Minister and his Department in this matter, I am glad that here we have a practical demonstration of the way in which Dáil Éireann works and of the way the Minister and his staff respond to representations. I am pleased that the position is now being rectified.

In Dublin Corporation, the local authority with which I am most familiar, a number of sick or disabled persons are employed with a view to their rehabilitation. Unfortunately, the regulations did not give them full social insurance coverage. I am glad that provision is also being made by the Minister for the granting of credit contributions to the category in question to enable them, immediately on reentry to insurance, to fulfil statutory conditions which govern entitlement to benefits particularly disability benefit and unemployment benefits. I am glad that the persons who raised the matter directly with a number of Deputies, who in turn raised it with the Minister, will now find the position ameliorated somewhat. I welcome the move and thank the Minister for this direct change in legislation. Not only should the new regulations be introduced but local authorities throughout the country should be advised by the Minister of the change so that they will be encouraged to employ an ever-increasing proportion of persons for rehabilitation purposes. Private employers should likewise be made aware of the change in the regulations. I recall the late Deputy Seán Dunne raising this point when trying to pioneer this type of legislation in the House. At long last the viewpoint he expressed some five or six years ago has now been vindicated.

Dr. O'Connell

I wish to congratulate the Minister on taking the initiative in introducing this amending legislation which I think is very important. It also shows that a Minister who sees injustice is prepared to do something about it. I shall say no more except that, perhaps, he might act in the same way about some of the other injustices in the present Social Welfare Bill which I have brought to his attention. I should like to see him coming in next week and the week after to do the right thing. He would have my admiration and full support.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): I am also glad that the Minister has introduced this amendment to qualify people who are being rehabilitated for insurance contributions and in that way provide that they will reap the benefit of the Social Welfare contributory code. I should like to avail of the opportunity to say that not enough physically handicapped people are employed by local authorities.

An Ceann Comhairle

I doubt if that would be relevant on this occasion.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): With all due respect, in the course of his remarks I think the Minister said that one of the points of this was to encourage employers to employ physically handicapped people. I shall not take up the time of the House for more than a few moments. I know from experience that people who are physically handicapped find it difficult to get full time employment when they have to compete in the market with people who are physically fit. I believe something could be done in the Department of Local Government to ensure that local authorities would employ a quota of such people. They have jobs such as that of telephonist and other work that these people can do perfectly well. I think it should be nearly compulsory on local authorities to employ a quota of physically handicapped persons. The same could be said for CIE and all the other semi-State bodies and, indeed, the civil service. I would appeal to the Minister to use his influence to see that this is done. The Minister for Health should also interest himself in it and the Government in general.

Mr. J. Brennan

I hope this will not have the effect of acting as a disincentive to the employment of these people. I hope the local authorities will continue, wherever possible, to employ people who are undergoing rehabilitation work. The reason these people were exempt in the first instance was to encourage local authorities to employ them.

A similar order will have to be approved by the Seanad and when it has been approved the regulation will be operative but it will not be retrospective and cases could arise of persons who would move out of rehabilitation employment and get a period of work and then become unemployed or disabled and find themselves not in a position to qualify for any of the benefits for which they would ordinarily qualify had they been insured during the entire period of their rehabilitation employment. If that type of case arises, I propose to amend the governing regulations to give them the necessary credited contributions.

Mr. L'Estrange

This is the same as making it retrospective?

Mr. J. Brennan

Yes. I am reminded that I will not have to come before the House with that voluntary contribution order. I can make it and it will become operative without coming before the House.

Question put and agreed to.