asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether this country's negotiations in Brussels have indicated that the 12-mile exclusive fisheries limit would again be a matter for negotiation at a future date; and if he will make a statement on the general fisheries position.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
7.
There has been no settlement as yet in the negotiations on the subject of fisheries. The negotiations are continuing and there will be a further meeting at Ministerial level on December 11th.
Could the Minister tell us what he is pressing for for Ireland in these negotiations?
I am pressing for the protection of the interests of the fishermen as these interests exist and for the conservation of the fishery stocks. Our industry unlike that of the other applicants is at a very undeveloped stage and for that reason, perhaps, the European countries thought it needed less consideration than those countries whose fisheries are developed. I am pressing for the continuation of access control to our waters so that it will be possible for us to build up our fishing industry. I am pressing, too, for a clause to ensure that the continued period after the first negotiations will relate to the circumstances in the development of the fishing industry and to the economic circumstances of the country rather than to have any sharp and sterile decision taken at this time.
Can the Minister say what differences exist at this stage on fishing between Ireland and Norway?
There is very little difference between the two countries. Both countries would like to see a situation whereby at the end of ten years there would be a review clause which would allow a decision to be made relating to the circumstances of the time and making it possible to have continued the protection we require now. In so far as the interests of our fishermen and the conservation of fish are concerned, there is very little difference in the attitude of both countries. We need areas of water. Because of the special interest of Ireland in shellfish, including prawns, and in salmon, I have already secured a 12-mile limit all around the coast.
It was in accordance with the agreement reached in 1964 that the six- and 12-mile limits obtained. Does the Minister consider that a period of ten years would be sufficient to bring our fishing fleet up to a point where it could be competitive with the other nations?
As a nation, we should set some target for ourselves in regard to the fishing industry and, therefore, we should not leave it indefinite. In any case, we would not get it indefinite. A lot can be done in ten years but I have serious doubts that at the end of that period we could accept a free access situation. For that reason, I would like the Community to have regard to the fact that a decision should be taken in ten years time.
Are the four applicant countries determined on the 12-mile limit for a period of ten years?
I think the Deputy will understand from what I said that the four applicants are now getting down to the real elements they wish to protect in respect of fishing waters and so on. We are clear on what will protect our rights in that respect. The four applicants are at one in wanting a situation at the end of the first interim period which will mean the consideration of the situation in relation to the needs of fisheries, the interests of the fishermen and the development of the industry generally, rather than saying that this is a transition to an acceptance of the original Community situation.
Should the Council prove inflexible in their approach and demand free access, how does the Minister see his attitude?
I should say that between the 9th November and Monday last, the Council have come a long way towards us in this and there is a very great difference between what was proposed originally and what is proposed now in regard to the regulations. I am working on the assumption that there will be a satisfactory solution but while the negotiations are still going on, I do not think I should go into consideration of what steps I might take otherwise.
I am sure the Minister can tell us that he has worked hard during these negotiations so that our fishing industry might be protected and built up. My question may be irrelevant but I wonder whether he worked as hard in the negotiations in order to get protection for Irish industry?
Is the Deputy talking about the fisheries negotiations?
No, he is talking about the dry land fish.
We have got a transitional period for industry which, on the full advice available to me, is satisfactory from the point of view of existing industries. We have a protocol to protect developing industries of which the Deputy has heard and there are special arrangements for the motor car industry in respect of which the transitional period was regarded as not being suitable.
That is about the only industry for which protection has been secured.
Question No. 8.
Mention has been made of an exception in the case of the north-west district but can the Minister say whether any other areas have been cited so far?
This was an offer. The north-west is where there are the pelagic fish, mainly herring, between the six and 12 miles and, for that reason, there is a clear case for the 12-mile limit in that area. As I said, I am in the process of negotiating and I would hope to negotiate on zones as well as what I have negotiated already.
Have any other districts been mentioned?
Yes, they have been mentioned by me but not by the Community.
Surely the Minister realises that if the Irish Sea, for instance, is not protected fully the fishmeal factory at Mornington would close.
The Deputy should know that herring-beds within the Irish Sea are within six miles. The principal fish to be protected on this side of the coast are shellfish and we have a 12-mile limit in respect of them negotiated already and also for salmon.
They are not depending solely on herring.
Does the Minister know from his colleague, the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, of the danger of over-fishing off the southeast coast?
That is a problem already regardless of any question of the Community. That coast is being over-fished.
The situation would be worse if we had French and Norwegian fleets fishing there.
They are in already.
I am calling Question No. 8.
The Minister has told us that he has cited areas other than the north-west coast? Can he say if any other districts have been mentioned in the negotiations?
I shall mention them to the House if I get them and I shall report to the House as we proceed.
I wish to ask one supplementary for the purpose of clarification. Has not the Minister conveyed to this House the belief that it will be possible for him to get protection in the negotiations for our limits beyond a period of ten years?
It will be essential not only to us but to all four applicants to negotiate a continuing arrangement so that if an arrangement can be made now for ten years, the final decision will be left to be made under the arrangements that would make such decision possible at the end of that time.
I have called Question No. 8.
Can the Minister say when there will be a decision?
That is what I am negotiating for.
Can the Minister give any indication in this respect?
The Deputy will have to talk to the Community.