asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware that the crime rate has risen in the Clonmel area, County Tipperary; and the proposals he has to combat this increase.
80.
Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Clonmel Garda Strength.
79.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is satisfied with the present strength of the Garda Síochána in Clonmel, County Tipperary; and if he has received complaints of undermanning in such a large town.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 79 and 80 together.
The incidence of crime in Clonmel has not been disproportionately high, having regard to the population of the town, but I am aware that, in recent months, there has been an increase in the incidence of larcenies there.
I understand that the local Garda superintendent had a meeting with representatives of Clonmel Chamber of Commerce on Tuesday last to discuss police arrangements in the town and that they are to be in contact on the matter again. On the question of strength I should, I think, mention that there are of course, many demands on Garda resources at present and that, while the Garda authorities will certainly have the fullest regard to any special factors appertaining to Clonmel, the needs of other areas must also be borne in mind.
In view of the very grave situation in south Tipperary since last Tuesday, is the Minister satisfied that the availability of manpower has been properly and sufficiently used, particularly in the Clonmel town area, a town with a population of 13,000 covering an average of eight or nine miles radius and where there are only two men on duty at night? Is the Minister further aware of individual complaints where a shopkeeper's window was reported broken at 8 o'clock in the morning and he did not get the Garda Síochána to attend him, because they were on other duties until 4.30 in the afternoon? Is the Minister satisfied with these conditions?
It is not correct to say there are only two gardaí available for night duty in Clonmel. There are two gardaí on beat control in Clonmel while, in addition, there is a patrol car available with a crew of two also available during the night. With regard to the specific matter mentioned by the Deputy, it has not come to my notice. I regret that the shopkeeper in question had to wait so long for Garda attention but, of course, at that stage, the crime had been committed and the immediate presence of a garda was not going to make any substantial difference. As I indicated in my reply, there are many demands on Garda time at the moment. The Garda authorities have the fullest regard to the difficulties in Clonmel and so far as possible, within existing resources, will endeavour to meet them. Clonmel, like any other part of the country, has suffered from the fact that men have had to be detached on temporary duty to the Border and this has meant a diminution in the number of men available. I am not aware that the situation in Clonmel is any more serious or more difficult than in any other part of the country.
Is the Minister stating that he is satisfied with the position there at the moment, under what he terms are conditions beyond his control at the moment?
I am not saying that I am satisfied.
Is he satisfied that the men available are being properly used? He states that there are two men on patrol duty in the town, a very large town, without radio contact. How can they possibly be of use or at least be contacted by the central base at the station? Furthermore, does the Minister agree that it is a very casual attitude to take to say that the presence of the Garda Síochána does not mean a lot to a shopkeeper who has just had his window broken in which there was £400 or £500 worth of stock? I think this was reflected in the fact that there were not enough Garda Síochána on duty and that the people who kidnapped the Earl and Countess of Donoughmore got through the cordon?
The Deputy is making a statement.
I think the Deputy is exaggerating——
No, I am not.
——the situation in Clonmel. I think he is also being unfair when he says I am not serious about this matter. I am, indeed, serious about it and I am concerned about the level of policing in any town in Ireland but there are only so many men available for any particular town. The numbers of men have had to be reduced, unfortunately, because of the demand for extra presence of the Border. Clonmel has had to suffer in the same way as any other town. The deployment of the existing force is a matter for the professional judgment and expertise of the officers in each division and I would not attempt to tell them how best to do that. Neither should the Deputy because all he can offer is essentially a layman's view in what is a professional area. It is untrue and unfair to suggest that there was any lack of police concern in regard to the abduction——
I did not say there was a lack of police concern, I said lack of manpower.
The Deputy was also criticising the deployment of police in the area and that is a reflection on those who are in charge of the police. I cannot accept that. While we all deplore and share the universal horror at the abduction of the Earl and Countess of Donoughmore and wish them to be speedily returned to their family unharmed it is not correct, and it is probably unhelpful, to suggest that the abduction was due to any failure on the part of the police in South Tipperary.
I did not say that.
This is a fair implication from the Deputy's supplementary.
The Minister is twisting what I said and I am surprised that in a grave situation like this he should try to turn it into a political matter. It is of far too great concern to all of us that Lord and Lady Donoughmore were kidnapped——
We cannot enter into arguments at Question Time.
I want to ask a supplementary question.
I was answering a question when the Deputy interrupted.
The Minister had not finished his reply.
I was replying to the Deputy's supplementary which had an implied criticism of the disposition of the police in South Tipperary.
No.
And he linked that with this serious abduction. I want to deny that there was any such——
That is totally untrue.
(Interruptions.)
The Minister should behave himself.
I want to protest here. I am concerned about the morale of the Garda Síochána in Clonmel. The Minister should be aware that morale is at a very low ebb in that town because——
Question No. 81.
——men have been given rest days when they should be working.
If morale is low in Clonmel—and that is something of which I have no knowledge and about which I should be very surprised—I suggest that the public parading of it here is not designed to help the situation.
I should like to raise this matter on the Adjournment, with your permission, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
The Deputy knows he is too late to raise it now. He may give notice another day.