Vol. 274 No. 8
asked the Minister for Labour if, in view of the number of man-days lost due to industrial disputes in recent months, he will consider intervention in such disputes at an earlier stage in an effort to save employment and business in other sectors affected by such disputes.
13.
asked the Minister for Labour if he will make a statement on the increase in the loss of work-hours incurred through industrial disputes in recent times.
14.
asked the Minister for Labour if he is satisfied with the conciliation and arbitration machinery available to him; if he has any plans to alter existing structures in view of the protracted nature of recent industrial disputes.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Question Nos. 12, 13 and 14 together.
I am of course concerned about the increase in the number of man-days lost due to industrial disputes in the first six months of this year. An analysis of the situation shows that the bulk of the losses were due to four or five key disputes.
I have asked both sides in industry to ensure that their negotiations are conducted seriously so as to avoid industrial breakdown. Our structure of industrial relations is quite adequate for dealing with disputes. What does seem to be lacking on some occasions recently is a willingness to use available machinery for reconciling differences.
In consultation between the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the employer organisations and the Government, services necessary for providing solutions to industrial disputes of all kinds have been developed and are available to the parties to disputes. The vast bulk of disputes dealt with are settled under the system.
The various arrangements are kept under review and whenever changes are called for, these are made, in consultation with the representatives of unions and employers, as appropriate.
Our system is a voluntary one, without any element of compulsion and this implies that it can be effective only where parties to disputes are willing to work it. Where one or more parties to a dispute refuse to negotiate or conciliate and persist in a dispute situation, no system in a democratic state, no matter how efficient, can produce a settlement.
With regard to the question of my intervention in a particular dispute, it will be appreciated that this must remain a matter for personal judgment, to be taken in the light of knowledge of the situation as it develops. In particular, I must make a judgment as to whether an initiative by me at any time will help towards a solution of the dispute or not, and whether it will strengthen or weaken arrangements which must operate not only for the dispute in question but for disputes generally.
From the experience of a number of disputes, I have come to the conclusion that the machinery for keeping me in touch with anticipated industrial breakdowns could be improved. Accordingly, I am recruiting a small number of persons with experience in the field of monitor developments.
Arising out of the Minister's lengthy reply, which was hard to take all together, in view of the fact that he has intimated that the existing machinery is adequate and that his intervention in any dispute is a matter for judgment affecting the state of the negotiations at that time, would he not now agree that his interventions in recent disputes were badly timed, ill-advised and completely ineffective? In view of that would he not agree that some measures are necessary whereby the Minister for Labour, if it is his function, would be ready to intervene in disputes that are seriously affecting our economy?
I would not agree with the first part of the Deputy's question and in the light of that it is doubtful if the second part of his question would, therefore, be a useful suggestion.
That is a joke.
It is a question for this House who is a joke here.
The Minister is a laughing-stock in the trade union movement.
Order.
The Minister must accept that at this stage he as Minister for Labour has lost the confidence——
Deputy Fitzgerald, a brief supplementary please.
The answer has been long and it is an important issue.
The Deputy must conform with Standing Orders.
I have admonished the Deputy to conform with Standing Orders. Supplementaries must be brief and relevant. May I have a brief supplementary?
You may. Is the Minister prepared to stand up at this stage and say that as Minister for Labour he has been an absolute failure in industrial disputes and is accepted as such by people who know?
This is argument.
It is important to set the record straight. I have recently been pointing out to the employers and the unions the serious increase in the number of disputes, as I said in the answer to the question, mainly due to two or three major disputes. We have not yet lapsed back to that disastrous pattern of industrial relations which was the rule in most of the years up to 1970.
Question No. 15.
Is the Minister aware that an unofficial dispute causing the closing down for three months of a synthetic fibre plant in Sligo occurred in the last ten days? Is it his intention to try to eliminate this aspect of disputes, the unofficial dispute?
The Deputy will appreciate that there are difficulties in a voluntary system and unofficial disputes are even more difficult. In a voluntary system we require the goodwill of both sides to ensure that a settlement comes about. I am generally confident that our structure is a good one. Where a need is seen by both sides for an improvement we are willing to make that improvement.
Is it intended to take action in this case?
In a particular case where a settlement does not appear to be in sight and where the existing structure appears to have broken down I am always willing, on the merits of the case, to see what assistance I can be by way of intervention.
Is the Minister considering giving consideration to the question of a cooling-off period in cases where these strikes occur often?
In the countries where a cooling-off period has been tried it has been found that at the end of the cooling-off period you have a concentration of disputes. Deputies must get it into their heads that there is no way in a democracy that a strike or a withdrawal of labour can be outlawed.
We are making little progress at Question Time. I ask Deputies to co-operate with me a little more.
Is there any way the Minister can enforce the Congress of Trade Union's rule whereby seven days' notice of intention to serve seven days' strike notice can be enforced? This did not happen, for instance, in the recent dispute with the Irish Transport and General Workers' Union.
That, in the first instance, would be a matter for the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. Their machinery, it must be pointed out, has been of great assistance in, for example, settling materially the recent inter-union dispute which has caused such a great deal of trouble throughout the country between the local authority engineers and the other union. They have succeeded, under their machinery, in settling that matter. The question raised by the Deputy is, in the first place, a question for the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. From our information that ruling is generally abided by.
Question No. 15.
In view of the protracted length of the key strike the Minister mentioned would he not agree that a bit more is required at this stage regarding these protracted strikes, which can have such a serious effect? Could I ask him to ask his Department to consider ways and means by which machinery can be set up to provide the cooling-off period and at the end of that some system whereby at least consultations can be carried on and strike notice prevented until a proper solution is reached?
I think what we should be after is to get a position obtaining between employers and unions whereby they conduct their negotiations as seriously before the disruption of a strike as afterwards. In the recent Dublin bus dispute negotiations continued throughout the period of cessation of work. If we could get this agreement before the strike we would be doing a good job. This agreement and this dedication to negotiation did not exist before the breakdown.
The particular negotiations did not take place before the strike.
15.
asked the Minister for Labour if he will introduce reforms in trade union legislation which will ensure that inter-union disputes, such as the bus and local authority engineers strikes, will be more readily resolved.
The incidence of inter-union disputes is a cause of concern. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions have established a committee specifically for the purpose of resolving such disputes. The published reports of the congress show that numerous inter-union disputes have been settled through the use of this machinery.
As the Deputy will be aware, I have already introduced the Trade Union (Amalgamations) Bill, 1974, and I am hopeful that this measure, when enacted, will help stimulate trade unions to amalgamate.
Is there any way in which the Minister can take steps to ensure that unions not affiliated to the Congress of Trade Unions will be considered for affiliation even though they originally may have been called break-away unions?
The Deputy is introducing a new matter.
The Deputy will appreciate this is a matter for the congress group of unions and not for myself or anybody else to suggest whom they should admit into their confederation. Presumably it would be in accordance with the rules of affiliation.
I am sure the Minister will agree that some of these disputes have taken place because at least one union involved had not got access to the congress machinery.
It was a member of the same negotiating group in that company so that was not primarily the matter at issue.
Would the Minister agree that these inter-union disputes are having a serious effect on the prestige of the whole trade union movement?
All disputes are serious for the movement.
This one in particular.
16.
andMrs. Lynch asked the Minister for Labour if he will intervene immediately in the industrial dispute at the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards at Glasnevin, Dublin; and, if not, why.
As this dispute is at present being considered by the Employer/Labour Conference, it would be inappropriate for me to intervene.
Would the Minister agree that he said earlier on in reply to Question No. 12 that he was always willing to examine the situation and ascertain whether or not he could be of assistance in settling a strike?
That is true. I said it was a matter of judgement, and in this case since there is at present an attempt to resolve this dispute under the auspices of the Employer-Labour Conference—one of the most valuable of our industrial relations structures—it would not be helpful for me to intervene.
On the other hand, in circumstances where the Minister is advancing the case of worker-participation at board level, and in view of the fact that the strike arose because the board dishonoured a promise of children's allowances to workers which had already been given to clerical and other staff, would the Minister indicate his interest in the matter of equality of all workers?
I am interested in having the dispute resolved and with justice to both sides, and I understand the steering committee of the Employer-Labour Conference is making a fresh effort to bring a solution to the dispute.
At what stage are the details of an industrial dispute, official or unofficial, made available to the Minister? When do the Minister's officials bring to his notice such details?
As I remarked in reply to Questions 12, 13 and 14, I think that more could be done about ensuring that the agencies responsible for industrial relations in this country were informed before a dispute actually broke out. There is that weakness there at present, and I propose to establish a new unit that would advise my Department and the other agencies involved about disputes that are possibly foreseeable.
That is what I was saying about a cooling off period?
No. I think there is a fair case to be made that a weakness at present exists that while the structures we have, the Labour Court and conciliation service, all work satisfactorily, we do not have any grouping in the State service that could examine possible disruption cases in the future. With such an agency established we might have some idea of trouble breaking out in a particular sector in some period in the future. By this information being available to the existing agencies, we might be in a position to avert that future cause of dissension.
Would the Minister accept the general principle that if a scheme of children's allowances operates in any firm it should be of general application?
As I say, that is the dispute which is being investigated by the Employer-Labour Conference.
There are three or four Deputies trying to speak together. We must pass on to the next question.
Is there not reluctance by everybody to intervene in the unofficial strike, which is the most difficult strike to handle?
Yes, the unofficial strike is extremely difficult to handle because you have the unions denying its legitimacy. However, over this whole area of industrial relations there is no short cut and no magic wand that will bring about industrial peace. There has been an improvement in recent years. The first six months of this year shows a tendency to lapse back to what was the unfortunate situation before 1970.
The Minister referred to the recruitment of additional people to give early advance warning of disputes. Can we take it that these people will be recruited through the normal Civil Service channels or will they be recruited directly from the Labour Party benches?
A final supplementary from Deputy Luke Belton.
Is the Minister aware that in this present dispute discussions are already taking place and that there is every prospect of an early and satisfactory settlement?
I am so informed?
How soon could we expect the advertisement for——
Question No. 11.
I would hope the advertisement would be appearing within the next week.
