asked the Minister for Education why the employment of a person in County Offaly (name supplied) who has been teaching at Cadamstown national school, Birr, is being terminated on the 30th June next although she has been teaching in this school for the past nine years.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Teacher Dismissals.
13.
The person in question is not qualified as a teacher under the rules for national schools and her services were accepted in Cadamstown national school purely on a temporary basis because the manager was unable to secure the services of a qualified teacher.
I am satisfied that a sufficient number of qualified teachers will be available in the next school year to fill all posts in national schools. Accordingly, all unqualified teachers, including the person referred to in the question, have been notified that their services will not be required after 30th June, 1975. According to my Department's records, the person in question took up employment as a temporary teacher in Cadamstown national school on 8th March, 1971 and has been there since then with the exception of the period from 10th February to 6th April, 1975, both dates inclusive.
14.
asked the Minister for Education if he will withdraw the dismissal notices served on 238 teachers which are due to take effect on 30th June, 1975.
Mr. R. Burke
For reasons which I have already explained to the House, I am not in a position to do this.
Seeing that the number of teachers that are required each year would not remain constant is the Minister satisfied that sufficient trained teachers will be available to fill all posts this year and next year?
The question relates to a particular person in Offaly.
May I point out that the Minister in the course of his reply referred to the fact that there would be sufficient trained teachers available next year——
That may be so but I am concerned about the question.
May I ask a question in this particular matter?
A broadening of the subject matter is not in order.
It arises directly from the answer given by the Minister and it is of general interest.
I have ruled on the matter, Deputy.
It arises from the Minister's reply.
I have no control over the Minister's replies.
Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle would enter the realm of fortune telling, because you appear to know what I am going to say before I say it.
The Deputy has been expanding on the subject matter quite clearly.
May I ask if the Minister would oblige me by listening to the supplementary? Could I ask if the Minister in the course of his reply said that the temporary teachers were being dismissed because there would be an adequate supply of trained teachers next school year? Could the Minister confirm that?
Mr. R. Burke
I said that I am satisfied that a sufficient number of qualified teachers will be available in the next school year.
Arising out of that may I ask the Minister whether there will be a sufficient number of qualified teachers in the school year commencing after this year?
Clearly the Deputy appears to be expanding on the subject matter. The question refers to a particular teacher.
Would the Minister reply? He spoke about the general quantum of trained teachers.
The Chair has an obligation not to allow a general debate on a particular question.
May I suggest then that the Chair is not giving us reasonable scope in our supplementary questions?
I am very generous in that regard as the records will show.
Can the Minister say whether the person whose name is supplied in the question will have any hope of re-employment the year after next?
Mr. R. Burke
That is not what this question asks.
Do I gather then, seeing that the Minister said in the House already that in cases where qualified teachers would not be entitled to take up teaching positions that he will look at the matter, has the Minister evidence from school managers that there are cases in which there will be difficulty in helping qualified teachers?
Mr. R. Burke
In reply to the Deputy, I have no personal knowledge that there are such cases. In any event the Department would have to await the outcome of the publication of these advertisements to see what the situation may be.
Do I gather that there may be evidence in the Department of which the Minister is not aware?
Mr. R. Burke
There is no evidence available to me that the situation is as the Deputy said.
I would like to ask the Minister if there will be any exception to this hard and fast rule which he seems to be insisting on with regard to teachers generally. Would he agree that an untrained teacher who filled the gap for 35 years in a school for which no other trained teacher could be found, who got good reports all the time and proved to be an efficient teacher, must go along with the others? Will there be an exception in such case?
Mr. R. Burke
As I told Deputies in reply to previous questions, since there will be sufficient numbers of qualified teachers, we hope they will fill all the posts available in national schools.
Arising further, would the Minister agree that the purpose of training the large number of teachers who are coming out this year was to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio?
Mr. Burke
I answered that question on 29th April as reported in Volume 280, No. 4 of the Dáil Debates.
Perhaps the Minister would answer it again and repeat the reply given at that time.
Mr. R. Burke
I agree with the Deputy that the general position was that we were trying to get as many trained teachers as possible into the service.
That is not a reply to the question I asked. The question I asked was whether the training of this exceptionally large number of teachers was not for the purpose of reducing the pupil-teacher ratio and improving the situation in schools where there are classes of more than 60 pupils.
Mr. R. Burke
The Deputy is in a better position than anybody in the House to favour us with the particulars which led him to make those decisions at that time.
That was the purpose. It was not the purpose to displace other teachers.
Question No. 15.
Would the Minister agree that it is a callous and inhuman act to throw these teachers on the dole?
Mr. R. Burke
I would not agree.
15.
asked the Minister for Education if he will state with regard to the 238 teachers who have been served with dismissal notices (a) the number who are in religious orders, (b) the number who have over five years' service and (c) the number who have over ten years' service.
Mr. R. Burke
On the basis that what is in question is continuous service in one or more national schools for which the person concerned was paid by my Department, the numbers requested are as follows: (a) 4, (b) 8 including those mentioned at (c) and (c) 2.