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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 Feb 1976

Vol. 287 No. 9

Private Members' Business. - Adjournment Debate: Foreign Goods Purchases.

During the past few weeks a number of questions have appeared on the Order Paper seeking information from various Ministers regarding the importation and the acceptance of foreign goods and asking, too, whether the Ministers concerned had impressed on the Departments the necessity for purchasing Irish-manufactured goods.

We have a very serious unemployment situation: there are almost 130,000 people out of work but there is a total lack of responsibility on the part of Ministers in so far as those unemployed are concerned. When we have raised these questions the answers we have received have been misleading in many ways. I have carried out some investigations in regard to purchases on behalf of Departments during the past couple of years and I have found that our present situation is being sabotaged by the various Departments including the Department of Defence. The Government, as a whole, must bear responsibility for this.

On January 16th, 1975 we asked a question regarding the purchase of footwear for Naval Service personnel. We were told that a contract was placed with Irish manufacturers in May, 1974 on the basis of a tender submitted and on which it was stated that the footwear concerned would be manufactured in a factory in Ireland. We are all aware of the situation within the footwear industry, of the numbers who have lost their jobs and of all those others who are on short time. However, to get back to the tender, it was found when the delivery was made that some of the items were foreign manufactured. This was at a time when many of our State-aided industries were going out of business. The Minister went on to state that it was not understood how the contractor got the impression that it would be in order to supply foreign-made shoes.

Deputy Brosnan raised this matter in the House and he expressed the hope that the Minister's reply would dispel any annoyance that was being caused by the supply to the Naval Service of footwear that carried the Saville Row status symbol. It is said that an army marches on its stomach but we want to ensure that our Army march on Irish leather. In reply to the Deputy the Minister said that on 24th April, 1974, the controller of stores invited tenders from 13 firms, all of which were Irish, for the supply of a 1,000 pairs of boots and 300 pairs of shoes for the Navy, that the tender accepted was endorsed to the effect that the articles would be manufactured by the firm who were tendering, that samples were asked for and received but that no indication was given that the items would be manufactured in England. The Minister told us that when the delivery was received in October it was found that the shoes were marked "British made" but that the boots bore no marking to indicate where they were made although it was confirmed later that they were made in Dublin. The Minister told us that the price difference in the tender accepted was greater than the margin of preference normally allowed under Government contract rules to Irish manufacturers.

It is very difficult to get information from the Departments in relation to these matters. On some occasions we are told that a tender is received from Irish manufacturers but it does not appear to matter where the goods are manufactured. The Minister for Defence may not be responsible for this situation except in so far as the area of collective responsibility is concerned. One would imagine that the great socialist, Dr. Conor Cruise-O'Brien, would impress on the personnel in his Department the need to buy Irish-made goods.

The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs.

Last week in reply to a question tabled by me asking the total number of boots purchased in each of the years 1973, 1974 and 1975 for the Defence Forces and the Naval Service, the contractor in each case and the country in which the boots were manufactured, the Minister told us that the numbers of pairs of boots were 33,000, 39,000 and 37,000 respectively and he concluded by saying that all the boots were made in Ireland with the exception of 400 pairs of special type sports boots which were not made here but which were ordered from an Irish supplier. The Minister said that the country of origin of those boots could not be stated definitely. Perhaps they were made in Hong Kong, in Britain or elsewhere. Deputy MacSharry, too, has been endeavouring to extract information from the Departments in this regard. He has been endeavouring to get across to the Ministers the fact that Irish-manufactured goods are as good as, if not better than those made in Hong Kong or elsewhere. I wonder if the Minister will now inquire as to where those 400 pairs of boots were made. Surely they could have been made by Irish manufacturers.

Some time ago I tabled a question regarding the purchase of low-loaders. On June 24th last I asked the Minister why he allowed the purchase of British-built low loaders when similar machines of Irish manufacture were available. The Minister told me that the type of machine in question was not manufactured in Ireland.

I believe we have technical personnel capable of designing low loaders suitable for the requirements of the Department of Defence, the Air Corps, the Naval Service or any other Department. We have Irish technicians and Irish engineers capable of fulfilling these requirements and to say that at a particular time a particular type of low loader was not available is not good enough when we have 130,000 people swelling the labour exchange and dole queues. It seems to me that the Government are bent on ensuring that they have the maximum number on the dole at all times because they are making no effort to ensure that goods of Irish manufacture are used by the Departments. Here I want to quote the Minister when he said that, of course, they—Irish firms—did tender but their type of low loader was a different and not suitable. The technical personnel in the Department of Defence and elsewhere are quite capable of producing drawings and specifications that could be worked on by Irish technicians, as is being done in the case of the Timoney armoured car. They are being very successful. This has been done before on many occasions. I believe our workshops are capable of producing whatever is required by the Department of Defence or any other Department within a reasonable field.

A few days ago, on January 27th, Deputy MacSharry asked the Minister for Defence if, in view of the "Buy Irish" campaign, he had advised all State-sponsored bodies under his Department to support the campaign and if he would indicate the amount of foreign purchases of manufactured goods, on contract or otherwise, by his Department and by State-sponsored bodies in the past 12 months, excluding goods which were not manufactured in Ireland. The Minister said he was not responsible for any State bodies and that the total amount purchased in the last 12 months was £4,270. He broke that down to: BICC for £1,857; James Stoll, £1,150 and BICC, £1,261. Two days later I got a letter from a person in my constituency referring to an article in The Irish Times on January 28th in which the Minister for Defence stated that his Department had only spent £4,300 on foreign imports in 1975, and wondering if the figure included £3,800—now the fat is in the fire—for 18 deep fat fryers which the company had tendered for. These fryers were of Irish manufacture but the order was given to a competitor who supplied Italian-manufactured goods.

Here is a situation in which an Irish manufacturer tenders and the goods could have been made in Ireland but the Minister's Department accepted Italian-manufactured goods. I want to remind the Minister and the Government that there are still 130,000 people on the labour exchange and in the dole queues. It is time the Government discontinued sabotaging the national effort because this is nothing short of industrial sabotage. the national effort because this is nothing short of industrial sabotage. I hope they have now come to their senses and that a deeper probe will be made in this and other Departments in relation to the purchase of goods. We shall do an in-depth study to find out exactly what has been happening because the replies to questions we put down were somewhat misleading.

I have not confirmed this but I had a letter from a person in Athlone today saying the Army were using blankets manufactured elsewhere than in Ireland. The Minister should examine that position. In the short time available I have indicated some of the problems that concern Irish workers on the dole. If the Department of Defence and other Departments continue on the lines they have been pursuing, the situation will become worse. The other day we had a motion here condemning the building of £11 million worth of ships abroad. We heard about the Irish Life problem regarding the importation of foreign furniture. Today we heard Deputy O'Malley indicating that a British firm had got a fabrication order in the region of £600,000 while our own people are capable of doing such work. This is a sad situation. I would expect the members of the Labour Party to have spoken out against this type of thing but their own Ministers are involved to a very large extent in relation to purchases for the Department of Defence and other Departments. I have some sympathy with the Minister for Defence in that he is not entirely responsible and may not be fully aware of some of the things that are happening. It is necessary to ensure that in future there will be no recurrence of what we have just heard about.

I should like to raise many other matters but I shall not do so. The Minister knows well the capacity of Irish technicians in the service and in the Army workshops. He knows there is development work going on in connection with the Timoney armoured car and on robots. Occasionally, he has expressed his pleasure at this type of development and the efficiency of the personnel. Nevertheless, there are these defects and weaknesses and from this on I trust the Minister will take a more active interest and ensure that his colleagues in other Departments will make certain that where possible goods required will be purchased here at home. It is a disgrace that with shoe factories going out of existence, we have people in the Naval Service wearing Saville Row shoes. The people themselves who joined the service for patriotic purposes resent being forced to wear British-made equipment.

I could say much more about the purchase of equipment. I understand that in the case of immediate need it may sometimes be necessary to get equipment quickly—when forces are being sent overseas for instance—but in this particular case there was ample time, the samples were there, the material was accepted when it should have been sent back. Why did the Department not send it back? This suggests grave irresponsibility on the part of those concerned.

I want the Minister to give a clear undertaking that he will do his part —that would satisfy me—in regard to the purchase of home-manufactured goods. I do not hold him fully responsible but there are defects and I want him to ensure that where possible Irish-manufactured material will be purchased and that an opportunity will be given to our designers and craftsmen to meet our production needs in regard to items such as low loaders and other equipment which can be made in the excellent workshops we have here.

When I accepted my seal of office from the late President, Éamon de Valera, I held myself fully responsible for the activities of my Department. Therefore, when I hear Deputy Dowling talk about sabotage by various Departments I take full responsibility for anything that happened. That is the way a politician should act. No more loyal group of servants can be found than the civil servants in the Department of Defence. In fact, the sort of hullabaloo and fairy tales we have just heard are typical of the complete ineptitude of the Opposition. I was almost tempted to quote Kipling when the Deputy started on the boots but I will spare him that. The position is that the boots were not bought by my Department. As he knows very well, the purchasing department for the multifarious needs of the Government, apart from certain specialised items which are bought by the Department of Defence, is the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.

The Deputy quoted quite extensively from a reply by my colleague, the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs on the 16th January, 1975 from the Official Report, Question No. 62. I should like to quote a couple of the items he left out:

Dr. Cruise-O'Brien: A contract for the footwear in question was placed by my Department in May, 1974, with an Irish manufacturer on the basis of a tender in which it was stated that the items would be made in his factory in Ireland...

I further quote from the same day, col. 498, from a colleague of the Deputy opposite, who tabled the question:

Mr. Brosnan: I thank the Minister for his explanation which I fully accept and I hope it dispels the annoyance of many people, including the recipients of this foreign manufactured footwear branded "Saville Row"...

I now quote from col. 499 where the Minister said:

...The sample boot received gave no indication of where it was made. I am not quite satisfied here in that I think it would have been well if inquiry had been made as to where it was made...

In October it was found that the shoes were marked "Saville Row, British made."...

These are the shoes only. There were only a few pair of shoes. The Minister continued:

The boots bore no mark indicating where they were made but it has been confirmed that they were made in Dublin.

We are talking about a few hundred pairs of shoes that were slid quietly past the recipients for which the Minister involved expressed the greatest regret. It was fully accepted by the colleague of the Deputy opposite. This disposes of the boots.

In relation to the low loaders, I was questioned here on the 27th January in relation to the purchase by my Department during the previous 12 months of foreign made goods. I would remind the House that the total figure which it is my duty to administer is £73 million and the figure of foreign purchases which might have been purchased at home was £4,270. That puts the matter into perspective. My nearest contact with the Army before I became a politician was a company officer in the voluntary aid section of the Red Cross during the Emergency. The Deputy opposite served in the ranks. That taught me one thing. I do not go to military men and tell them precisely what sort of goods they need, what sort of equipment they need. The files in my Department tell me that the specific type of specialist low loader was necessary and was not available in Ireland. That was the only reason why a few low loaders were bought. They were not bought, as was suggested by the Deputy last week, in the previous 12 months but ordered in November, 1973 and delivered in June, 1974. I will not go to the military men and say: "You must not buy this. You must buy that." They have too serious a responsibility in that regard to be thrown aside at the present moment.

The Deputy said that 18 deep fat fryers of Italian origin were purchased by my Department. Those deep fat fryers were purchased from an Irish firm giving very considerable employment in the Deputy's constituency. In a debate on the Irish Life furniture contract on the 3rd February at column 1064 of the Official Report the Deputy's colleague, Deputy Nolan said:

...If they had given those contracts to Irish firms, even when they were 16 to 20 per cent over and above the amount of the contracts of firms in the UK and elsewhere, I do not think any Member of this House, or any person in this country would say anything except congratulate the Ministers, particularly because of the financial position of the country...

I do not give names of firms across the House nor will I, but I say that 20 per cent could not have got the firm that complained to Deputy Dowling within an ass's roar of the price that was quoted by the firm that supplied and are employing many people in his constituency.

Was Deputy Nolan referring to this particular contract?

Deputy Nolan was referring to 16 to 20 per cent preference, that such was there. I listened to the Deputy. Let him listen to me.

Order. The Minister, without interruption.

On a point of order——

The Deputy had 20 minutes to make his case.

I wanted to raise a point of order.

I appeal to the Deputy's sense of fair play to allow the Minister to utilise the few minutes at his disposal.

I will bring him back again tomorrow.

Since I became Minister for Defence I have assisted the development of the Timoney armoured car to the best of my ability. The present position, as the Deputy well knows, as I told him across the House, is that they are out on final trial in commands and within the month we will know where we are. I am proud to tell the House that at the moment there is a very good chance that they will go abroad with possible sales and possible employment in this country by their manufacture. I back them to the hilt. I will take no criticism on that front.

Reference was made to blankets. They were bought across the counter in 1969 and 1970, too, when there were difficult situations in relation to refugees. Thanks be to God and his Holy Mother, I am not responsible for 1969 and 1970, too, but some of the Deputies who are not there now are fully responsible for the dog being let off the leash. I want to say something else in the two minutes I have left.

(Interruptions.)

I specifically excluded the Deputy and I respect him as I respect many on this side of the House. I referred to Deputies not here at the moment.

My record in the Department of Defence, as far as Irish industry is concerned, will stand up to inspection. I have put through the Government in a time of severe financial recession an order for a new fishery protection vessel that will cost £4 million. I have two new barracks, one new billet block at Dundalk. The whole barracks will now accommodate 330. There was nobody there a few years ago. That has been built during my term of office. On the 17th September next I hope to open a £1 million barracks in Monaghan. I have yet to find the barracks that Fianna Fáil built during their term of office. That is my record as far as Irish manufacture and Irish employment are concerned.

Kickham Barracks, Clonmel, was rebuilt.

I admit completely, as any man who takes his place in this House should admit, that he is naturally a political animal who must be political across the House, fight his corner and go for what he believes in. Deputy Dowling has a responsibility, perhaps, nearly as serious as mine. He has not been helpful in trying to portray the image of a good defence and a good security situation. He is pernickity and snipes away at small things that people complain about because they think they have a grouse. He has a very thick political hide. He is like a political rhinocerous that rolls around in smelly mud in the hope that some of it will stick to other people. It will not stick to me. I am proud of our efforts in Defence.

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 11th February, 1976.

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