asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the position regarding the increase in BIM loans to fishermen.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - BIM Loans.
10.
The Government have authorised An Bord Iascaigh Mhara to make loans of up to £8.25 million available to fishermen this year for the purchase of boats and gear under its marine credit plan. The corresponding amount provided last year was £3.9 million. The high cost of State borrowing has made it necessary to increase the rate of interest on these loans from 4 per cent to 8 per cent.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary say if the increase applies to loans given already to fishermen or when does this new increase come into operation?
It applies to loans under the variable clause but will not interfere in any way with loans that have been granted to fishermen under the 4 per cent clause. The cost to the Exchequer this year of interest subsidies will be £500,000 as against £285,000 in 1975. Deputy Gallagher and other Deputies will appreciate that, when this 4 per cent loan rate was established some years ago, the standard interest rate was then 6 per cent and the Exchequer was subsidising to the extent of 2 per cent. According to the last borrowings of the Exchequer the standard rate is 14 per cent and there is a subsidisation of 6 per cent, which will mean £500,000.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the Government could not have introduced this at a worse time for the industry, when the fishermen have experienced their worst year for a long time, when catches are down and the cost of boats is on the increase? Would he agree that this is the worst possible time this could have been introduced, particularly with loans in other sectors coming down, for instance in the building industry?
I wonder is Deputy Gallagher serious because he is not the type of man who jokes very much at Question Time. Here is what has happened: despite our economic recession, as I indicated in my reply, the Government are making available up to £8.25 million to fishermen this year for the purchase of boats with no relationship whatever to what was issued in the 1971-72 and 1972-73 periods.
(Interruptions.)
That is codology; boats are six times dearer now.
Fianna Fáil codded a good few fishermen, particularly about the extension of the fisheries limit, and so on, which we will be discussing at a later date. Despite the difficulties this year the Exchequer has provided every available penny required for this industry. A 6 per cent subsidisation, equivalent to £500,000, is quite a good bonus from the Exchequer. Deputies should not be joking; they should be grateful. I have no doubt but that the fishermen and others will be grateful for the attention they are receiving from this Department and the Government.
Might I ask the Parliamentary Secretary, in present circumstances—when bank rates have gone down and building societies have announced their intention to bring down their rates—how he can, in his Department, through An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, justify an increase in interest rates? Further, how can he reconcile the figures he has given now? He states that just under £300,000 was required by way of interest subsidy, when the actual subsidy was only 2 per cent and he is boasting about——
Might I appeal again for brevity?
I would be briefer and clearer if I were not interrupted. Could we ask the Parliamentary Secretary how he reconciles the 2 per cent subsidy, amounting to just under £289,000, I think he said, with the case that he is doing so much more?
This is leading to a long argument, Deputy. It is not good enough.
A Cheann Comhairle, I am trying——
(Interruptions.)
I have appealed for brevity.
The Deputy took ten boats from the fishermen when he was Minister. He should tell the truth.
Never mind that. I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary how he tallies a 2 per cent interest subsidy, amounting to £289,000, now superseded by a better deal of £500,000 which incorporates a 6 per cent subsidy. He is tripping himself up.
(Interruptions.)
Order. We cannot debate this matter today.
The Deputy took the boats from the fishermen.
Who is codding who?
(Interruptions.)
Will Deputy Blaney desist from interrupting and allow Question Time to continue?
The interruptions have not come from me. Apparently, as far as the Chair is concerned, I am not allowed to ask a question in this House.
I have facilitated the Deputy in every way. He knows full well that he may not——
The Ceann Comhairle has not facilitated me. He has interrupted me three times while trying to get a question across catching out the Parliamentary Secretary.
It was not catching me out.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy is creating disorder at Question Time.
I have not been creating disorder. If I was allowed to ask my question there would be no disorder. There is disorder and confusion over there.
I am passing on to the next question, No. 11.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Deputy Gallagher, please allow Question Time to proceed.
It is an important question relating to the whole fishing industry. I think I should be allowed ask one further question.
If the Deputy will be very brief.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary agree that, at present, An Bord Iascaigh Mhara are not making loans available for secondhand boats and that secondhand boats have been used in many areas of commencement of the fishing industry in many ports?
The position so far as loans and grants from An Bord Iascaigh Mhara are concerned is much improved. Under our direction——
That is a downright lie.
Deputy Gallagher. If Deputies ask questions they should be good enough to listen to the replies.