asked the Minister for Health if he is aware that medical cards are not available to children in care in some instances; and the action, if any, he intends to take in this matter.
13.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Deprived Children.
12.
asked the Minister for Health if he will consider giving capital grants in respect of extraordinary expenses incurred due to the deterioration of buildings, heating systems and plumbing in residential homes for deprived and homeless children.
14.
asked the Minister for Health if he is aware of the need for additional finances for residential homes for deprived and homeless children and for the childcare workers, domestic staff and others engaged in these homes.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 to 14, inclusive, together.
In regard to Question No. 12, I am aware that children in care who are maintained in residential homes are not ordinarily issued with medical cards as the payments made from public funds for the maintenance of children in such homes are intended to cover necessary medical care.
With respect to Questions Nos. 13 and 14 there are no funds currently at my disposal from which I could make capital grants of the nature referred to by the Deputy. In any event the capitation rates paid in respect of residential homes include an element for the maintenance of the premises.
As the Deputy is aware, the Minister for Education is the appropriate Minister for the majority of these homes.
Representations have been made to me and to the Minister for Education regarding the financial position of the homes and these representations are now being examined in both Departments. The examination will, necessarily, have to have regard to the limited financial resources currently available.
Can the Minister tell us what is the capitation grant per child?
In the residential homes it is £18 per week. In the children's homes it is £15 per week which will be increased almost immediately to £18 and will be retrospective to 1st January this year.
Is the Minister saying effectively that there is no money available specifically for the items outlined in Questions Nos. 13 and 14?
I said that element was contained in the £18 capitation grant. That has been a usual feature of——
Is the Minister satisfied that the £18 is adequate in view of the value of the pound today?
I would not be prepared to commit myself about the £18, but I know there have been difficulties in these homes for some time, added to by the fact that many of these homes were operated by members of religious orders, and these seem to be declining as far as employment in these homes is concerned. Lay workers are now employed and dissatisfaction has been expressed at the rate of the capitation grant which, of course, includes payment to them. Representations have been made to me in respect of the £18, and because I am not entirely satisfied I have decided to establish an inter-departmental committee comprised of health, finance, public health and education personnel to go into the matter and report as quickly as possible.
Is this inter-departmental committee sitting at the moment?
No. I said I have decided to establish this committee.
Can the Minister tell us when the committee will be established and when it will report, having concluded its deliberations? I am not apologising for being a politician when I say I do not want to bring this into the area of politics; but the Minister is aware of the urgent nature of the requests sent to him in relation to the content of my questions.
Yes.
Is it just another way of putting off the evil day?
Not necessarily.
The evil day in relation to the lack of finance? Is that not effectively what the problem is?
That is right, yes.
What is this committee to which the Minister referred?
To investigate the whole situation in regard to maintenance and staff payments.
In institutions?
The £18 did not include maintenance. It has not been usual in the past to provide any capital grants except for the construction of the building itself.
What the Minister is saying is that the £18 includes an element for maintenance and so on. Can he tell us how much the element is in relation to the £18 capitation grant?
I cannot give a breakdown of that.
If I put down a parliamentary question?
If I can get the information I will give it to the Deputy.
May I ask——
Would the Deputy please conclude his question? I want to call on another Deputy for a final supplementary.
I would remind the Ceann Comhairle that three questions are being taken together.
I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude in that regard.
I have asked only three supplementaries arising out of the three questions taken compositely——
I have given the Deputy full latitude.
——and therefore I would imagine I would be entitled to ask a number of questions.
The Deputy has already asked a number of questions.
I have asked three.
Let us not argue and waste time.
In relation to the £18 capitation grant, would the Minister not agree that, having regard to the value of the £, the £18 is a disgraceful capitation grant and totally inadequate?
If one wants to go on figures alone, I would point out to the Deputy that there was a 65 per cent increase in the capitation grant from 1974. This year there will be an increase of 20 per cent.
Two is a 100 per cent increase on one.
Will the committee have a budget and could the Minister tell the House what the budget will be?
No, I could not.
Question No. 15.
I told the Deputy that I propose to establish an interdepartmental committee to consider the capitation grant and the reasons for the demand for an increase in the salaries of the workers. I have also told him that there has been a 65 per cent increase in this grant since 1974, including the 20 per cent increase for the year 1976.
Order. I insist that the next question be dealt with.
This is a clever way of getting over it.
The Chair has called the next question.
It is most unfair that we are not allowed to ask supplementary questions.