Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Dec 1976

Vol. 295 No. 1

Air Companies (Amendment) Bill, 1976: Committee and Final Stages.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2.

Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. Barrett

This section gives the Minister power to guarantee loans including moneys in a currency other than the currency of the State. This brings us again to the problem of currency adjustment that we had last week with Aer Lingus and that we seem to have with many of our State companies. I appreciate that the present non-sterling capital repayable in non-sterling currency at 31st March for Aer Lingus was $68.6 million and 50 million Swiss francs. It is not a very big sum when it is compared with the ESB, for instance, but since it would appear to be more advantageous to borrow in sterling could I ask what are Aer Lingus's chances of borrowing its requirements under this Bill within the sterling area. Is there an advantage in going outside the sterling area because of having access to these currencies through bookings?

Since we are discussing borrowing in non-sterling areas, could I ask if Aer Lingus have ever, in their own interest, considered establishing a dollar reserve fund with their dollar revenue by way of deposit in New York banks or otherwise and utilising sterling here at this side for operational costs? Would this be an advantage to them in their overall budgeting? I believe it would be a help if they created a dollar reserve in America and at the same time utilised sterling here. With regard to the borrowings permitted it has been stated that the amount under consideration is similar to that granted in 1969 but there is a difference because in 1969 Aer Lingus purchased jumbos and other aircraft. I presume it is not the intention of the company to purchase any more jumbos at present.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): As the Deputy will appreciate, this section is an enabling section. It states that the Minister for Finance may, after consultation with the Minister for Transport and Power, guarantee in such form and manner and in such moneys, including moneys in a currency other than the currency of the State, and on such terms as he thinks fit. Generally speaking, if it was more advantageous to borrow in sterling the company would borrow in that currency but if on the other hand it was not possible to borrow in sterling or was more advantageous to borrow in some other currency the company would borrow in that currency. It would not be possible to answer the Deputy's question relating to whether the company would borrow in sterling or some other currency because the company, like any good company, is expected to make the best deal possible. It would be in the light of the terms available that the company would decide where to borrow. I have noted the Deputy's suggestion in relation to the establishing of a dollar reserve in the US and discharging commitments in America in dollars. I do not know whether that has been considered by the company but it is worth considering.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 3 to 9, inclusive, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill received for final consideration.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Mr. Barrett

I was glad to hear the Minister give, as his predecessor did, a commitment to the North Atlantic service. Fianna Fáil are committed to supporting this service also. It is a very vital operation as far as our national airline is concerned, even though it is losing money. It is important as far as our country is concerned but, more important still, it is vital to the west of Ireland. I do not make that statement simply because I represent a constituency which includes Shannon airport but I do so on behalf of tourist interests in the west. According to statistics published last week, 70 per cent of the passengers travelling from America terminated their journey at Shannon as against the 30 per cent who continued on to Dublin. I can recall that when the landing rights issue was a big topic in this House we were told that the American airlines would bring thousands of tourists here. The figure, in fact, ran into hundreds of thousands. This has not happened and, therefore, we must assume that the promotional activities of the American company were not successful.

I would hate to see the day when we would be totally dependent on those airline companies to bring tourists to the west of Ireland. Some of those companies are only concerned about flying people anywhere. They are not concerned about flying people to Shannon or Dublin; they simply want to fly people. We cannot risk terminating operations on the North Atlantic route. It was very disconcerting to hear the general manager of Aer Lingus state that the question of terminating that service would have to be considered. Aer Lingus are capable of pulling out of the recession being experienced on the North Atlantic route and the company target forecast seems to indicate that they will do so soon.

I should like the Minister, and the company, to consider this whole question of charters which has been a controversial issue for years. In regard to the charter business, Aer Lingus have been made the scapegoat and wrongly so in most instances. When you become conversant with the truth this is what you discover. The Yugoslav airlines have a subsidiary company which deals solely with charter work. Aer Lingus should consider establishing a subsidiary charter company in order to streamline their charter service to groups in the USA who complain about their charter facilities. Aer Lingus may not have a sufficient number of aircraft to increase their activities in the charter business and it might be worth considering increasing the fleet to cope with extra charter business. A definite charter service on the North Atlantic would lead to more co-operation between Bord Fáilte and Aer Lingus. The idea seems to be working successfully in Yugoslavia.

There are quite a number of training flights in and out of Shannon at present and they are welcomed by the people in the area, the airport authorities and all those concerned with maintaining the airport. Recently I was told that the training flights are deviating from the established flight paths, particularly at night. Some people living in the area maintain that there is unnecessary noise at night. Perhaps the Minister would be able to tell me if these training flights are deviating from the established flight paths.

Mr. Brennan

I congratulate the Minister on his promotion and hope that he takes a keen interest in the problems of State-sponsored companies, particularly Aer Lingus. We normally spend our time congratulating everybody concerned with successful ventures. Aer Lingus have been outstandingly successful but in recent times they have been taking things for granted. The service which distinguished Aer Lingus has deteriorated slightly. Those of us who are used to air travel do not worry about it but, as the Minister said, many people travelling by air for the first time appreciate the kind word and the friendship which are not always as evident as they might be. There have been times when the remarkable service for which Aer Lingus is noted was not evident. Most countries have established their national airline and it is questionable whether many of them will ever be viable services. The result is that the State has to carry the can and for that reason we should ensure that economies and proper management are the order of the day without impairing the service of the company or their reputation for safety.

Every precaution should be taken to maintain the good safety reputation which Aer Lingus enjoy. It could be said that our airline is a status symbol. Even if the airline was not viable, we, as an island country, should be anxious to maintain it as a contact with the outer world. Ethnic groups, particularly in North America, expect to see the homeland having this connection. There is a ready made market for our tourist industry and our airline in the great numbers of our people abroad, whether first, second or third generation. They like to see the plane with the shamrock and are proud of the airline's reputation for safety.

Without digressing from references to the lack of co-operation which has been covered by other speakers, and I do not want to be repeating too much, there is a very important job to be done. If the country has to come to the rescue in making up deficits or losses by the airways, either in the payment of interest or the guaranteeing of loans or direct payments from the Exchequer, no matter what form this takes there is a bonus to be gained in that we co-operate to the fullest to ensure that the tourist industry, one of our largest, is assisted in every possible way by the co-operation of the airways. A lot more could be done in that respect and enough has been said about it to have the hint passed on that from now on we would expect to see much more co-operation than we have in the past.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): Co-operation between——?

Mr. Brennan

Bord Fáilte and Aer Lingus, to put it broadly; in other words, between the tourist industry and our airways service. This in itself would make up somewhat a bonus for the losses incurred by the airways to the extent that they have to be maintained in the difficult situation which they are facing. I do not want to go into a political tirade on it, but it is true to say that Aer Lingus would do much better in the tourist passenger service if the climate for tourism in the country was better than it is. Tourism is an industry which was developed tremendously in this country, and it has been only marking time or even going back in recent times. There were slight improvements indicated here and there which were only symbolic of what the increase should have been. Our tourism should have been double by this time, but there are prices for everything. Sometimes one wonders that so many tourists do arrive when one considers the markets available to them. There is a huge task to be done here. Absolute co-operation is essential if it is to be done.

Deputy Barrett referred to the number of passengers who disembark at Shannon and the satisfactory record since other airways have been permitted to fly into Dublin. Unfortunately, that service does not suit the north-west of the country as much as we would like. This is because of the pattern of our transport routes, with everything converging on Dublin. It is much easier to get from Dublin to Donegal, Sligo, Mayo or Cavan than it is to get to these places from Shannon. I wonder whether the Minister has covered in any statement the extent to which internal spur lines will be developed or are likely to be developed in the future. Nearly everywhere you go in the country, particularly in the north-west, people say, "We would want an airstrip; we would want some airstrips". I know what is involved. The 50 or 100 passengers that may come now and again would not justify an airstrip at every crossroads, but we have reached the time when the north-west must have, if not a scheduled service, certainly facilities to enable flights of accommodation—I will not call them charter flights—to come in at suitable times. This would tremendously help the economy of the area and make people feel that, coming into Shannon or Dublin, they could get to the end of their journey in reasonably good time. A very common comment in Donegal is that if you convey some of your friends to Shannon to get the plane to America, as happens so often, they will be in New York before you will get back home. That is an indication——

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): It would depend on whether they had many stops.

Mr. Brennan

That is an indication of the hazard. The transport service and our road structures are such that they are not directly suited to that.

These are the few remarks that I would like that the Minister, in taking on his new portfolio, would turn his attention to. If he can in his time contribute to the improvement of the service along these lines, then he will have left some little monument by which we may remember him for whatever length of time he may be in charge of that portfolio. We wish him well. I would also like to know—perhaps he has given this information— the assets of Aer Lingus and those of their associated companies, and the total amount of their pay-roll. They are very big employers, which is another reason why their continued existence is justified. In respect of the difficulties of bringing them to the state of viability, it would be interesting to know what the total payroll is. It would be interesting to know the exact number of people employed in the airways; that would include the different companies. These things would help to balance our thinking against the losses that we see occasionally having to be met as the result of the year's working.

Having said that, I will conclude by saying that this country has been proud of its airways and of the reputation they have earned. We think the Minister should ensure—the onus is on him more than on anybody else now—that there should be no deterioration in that service, that there be no diminution of the reputation, the prestige, which Aer Lingus have built up in their parent company. They are to some extent at a stage where—I want to put it fairly—it might be wise to ensure that nothing will happen in that direction.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): First of all, although I do not think it necessary, I want to repeat, and I think it is now accepted by Deputy Barrett and the other Deputies opposite, that there is no question of withdrawing the North Atlantic service. Neither my predecessor, Deputy P. Barry, nor myself ever suggested it. I read Deputy Barry's Second Reading speech, and unless you took one half of a paragraph out of it and then burned the rest of it you could not arrive at any such conclusion.

Mr. Barrett

I did not conclude that.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan): I know, but some people did. Deputy Barrett fairly said that he was glad to hear that both myself and my predecessor had given that assurance directly. I want to repeat that and to say that as long as I am Minister for Transport and Power I will look at the performance of Aer Lingus, Aerlínte, Bord Fáilte and the IDA as one package, because I think they are all related to each other in one way or another and have a lot to do for the country and can do a lot.

As I said in an earlier contribution this evening, I believe that nobody can sell Irish tourism in the United States or any other foreign countries better than an Irish airline. As long as we have the airline operating between here and North America, they will, I hope—and they will be exhorted to—spare no effort to fill their aeroplane seats. When they are canvassing for and filling those seats, at the same time they will be filling the beds of Irish hotels and selling Irish hospitality to the tourists.

It is true to say that Bord Fáilte, Aer Lingus and Aerlínte have a common objective. That is recognised, and it could not be more forcefully recognised than by pointing out that the same Minister is charged with responsibility for the policies of Bord Fáilte and the airlines. It will be my objective and my desire to see that both these boards co-operate in the national interest.

I was somewhat surprised and concerned to hear from Deputy Brennan and others that our image as a friendly airline is in danger of being damaged. I hope that is not so; I have no evidence that it is. I will be very concerned, as Minister for Transport and Power, to see that our airline continues to be known as the safe and friendly airline. I could not emphasise that point enough. As Deputy Brennan said, flying is an experience for some people. Some people feel about getting into an aeroplane as they do about getting into bed. They are not concerned about flying. Others treat it as if they were getting into a dentist's chair. These people need to be put at ease, to feel at home and to hear a friendly word. I would be very concerned if I thought that that image was being damaged or was in danger of being damaged. There are many things I have to read about and study in connection with the various boards which come under my control, but it does not take much reading or studying to know that the point raised by Fianna Fáil is important and that no effort should be spared to ensure that our image is not damaged.

Deputy Barrett raised the question of training flights at Shannon and suggested that occasionally they go off the flight path. These training flights are a very lucrative operation engaged in by the Irish airline and I hope they continue and the business expands. The points raised about planes going off the flight path is important and I will have it looked into.

Deputy Brennan raised the point about spur air fields or airports. That is something I am sure will come but we must concede that it cannot be a top priority. That would be an ideal situation. It is a luxury the Opposition can indulge in and it is something I would like to see. We have air strips at Farranfore, Castlebar, I think there is one under way in Sligo and also in Aran. It can be said that people who travel from Donegal to see their friends go to America often find that the friends have arrived in America before they get back to Donegal. It is true to say that it takes twice as long to travel 100 miles on a good road than it does to fly from London or Birmingham to Dublin. If we had not aeroplanes it would take much longer to get from any place in Britain to Ireland. We must keep these points in mind.

I want to thank the Opposition for giving me all Stages of this Bill this evening. I also want to thank the Deputies, in addition to Deputy Lalor, who extended a welcome and their good wishes to me.

Question put and agreed to.