asked the Minister for Local Government why the amount requested by his Department from Kildare VEC for audit fees has increased to such an extent in 1977; and if he will indicate the amounts charged in each of the years since 1970.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Kildare VEC Audit Fees.
19.
The increase in audit fees for Kildare VEC is part of a general increase in audit fees due to the overall rise in the cost of the Local Government audit service. In fixing the revised rates for individual authorities, regard was had to the current levels of revenue expenditure of the various authorities, the length of audit time and the difficulty of particular audits.
The fees were last revised in 1973. The current fees, which have been approved by the Prices Commission, will apply to the audit of accounts for the year ended 31st December, 1975.
The fees chargeable in respect of the audit of the accounts of Kildare VEC since 1970 are: 1970-71, £40; 1971-72, £40; 1972-73, £40; 1973-74, £200; 1974 (9 months), £150; 1975, £450.
I am sure that even the Minister would agree that "galloping" would not be a word that would amply describe the inflationary figures he mentioned in this case. Seeing that members of the VEC are happy with the personnel and that the figures are reliable—it is members of Local Government who want to audit them— does he not now feel, in view of the very high cost involved, that Local Government could foot the Bill and pay for the audit?
I am not aware that the members would even be aware of whether or not the figures were correct. They are presented to them by the officials and I am sure they are correct, but they must be audited. It is ridiculous to suggest that because a number of figures supplied by local authorities are accepted by the members that should be sufficient. I do not think Deputy Power would agree that that was so. I might point out that whereas a fee of £200 was fixed in 1973 and the then expenditure of Kildare VEC was less than £200,000 the comparable figure for the year ended 31st December, 1975, is £677,000, an increase of 238 per cent. The revised fee represents an increase of 125 per cent. Generally the idea is that the VEC pay for two-thirds of the cost of the audit and the extra one-third is carried by central funds. That is not an unreasonable way of doing it.
The Minister inferred that we might not be aware of the figures. I am telling him we are aware of the figures. I am saying members are satisfied that the figures presented to them and to the personnel in the Vocational Education Committee are very reliable. We know them more intimately than do those carrying out the audit. The Department of Local Government want the audit. The figures are now ten times what they were when Fianna Fáil were in power. Could the Minister impress on his Department that they should carry the fees?
We are having repetition.
Why should we have to pay for what the Department of Local Government must do in the nature of their business?
I think Deputy Power has got the wrong end of the stick. An audit is carried out on behalf of the State and it is right that it should be carried out in every case. If we followed Deputy Power's argument to its logical conclusion we should do away with audits.
You should pay for them. You should pay for your own men to do their work.
Deputy Power mentioned the word "canine" a few minutes ago. Would he please stop making noises until I give the reply? Deputy Power's argument now is that we should accept the figures presented and, if we did that, no audit would be needed. If he thinks that is right it is surprising that he did not impress it on Fianna Fáil when they were in power. Look at all the money which would have been saved, according to him.
We only charged £40 when we were in power.
They had to be paid for by somebody else.