asked the Minister for Labour the number of occupational guidance officers employed by the National Manpower Service.
21.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - National Manpower Service.
20.
asked the Minister for Labour the number of (a) occupational guidance officers, and (b) placement officers currently employed by the National Manpower Service.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 and 21 together.
There are six occupational guidance officer posts in the National Manpower Service at present and all of these posts are filled. In addition two officers recently commenced a course of training abroad in occupational guidance and will be available for guidance work when they have completed the course in the summer of 1978. The question of further additions to the service will be considered in the meantime.
There are 60 placement officers currently employed and arrangements are in progress for the recruitment of a further 22 to bring the number in this grade to 82 as soon as possible. The ultimate staffing needs of the placement function will be kept under regular review in the light of experience.
I realise that the Minister is not very long in his post and that he certainly will get down to the job. Is he aware that, according to the Institute of Personnel Management and the Institute of Training Managers. these six guidance officers must cater for 150,000 young people under the age of 19? Would he not think that the figure is completely unrealistic and that we are sowing the seeds of dissatisfaction in places of employment because of this?
I am aware of the necessity for increasing the numbers. It is considered that there should be a guidance officer for every six placement officers, and that means that we should have about 14 at the moment. Two extras are in training and I hope that, with the approval of the Minister for the Public Service, I will be able to create three additional posts in 1978. I might also add that the embargo on the public sector did not help me in the past number of years.
Could the Minister give any indication as to the average active place-load of these guidance officers?
I have not that information but I can get it and convey it to the Deputy if he so wishes.
Could I ask the Minister if he will outline the division of function between placement officers and guidance officers?
The guidance officer's function is available as a referral service only, that is, persons in need of guidance are referred to the service by another agency, usually the placement service. I do not have to spell out the function of the placement service.
The Minister said that the embargo in the public service has not helped him.
That is right.
Is that embargo still in force?
I have already told the House that two further people were recently sent abroad on training and that I hope to have three further placement officers.
I am talking about the general embargo. Is that still in force? The Minister told us about two possible recruitments in his own Department, but is the embargo generally in force?
That is a matter for another Minister.
The Minister said that this was one of the things he had to contend with. Is it or is it not in force?
That is a matter for another Minister.
Why did the Minister refer to it if it is a matter for another Minister?
I would like to repeat, for the Deputy's benefit, that there are two guidance officers presently being trained abroad. I hope, with the approval of the Minister for the Public Service, to have three more appointed in 1978.
Would the Minister answer the question I put to him as to whether the embargo is or is not still in force?
The answer I gave was that the embargo on the staff in recent years applied to the National Manpower Service.
That for the third time is the answer as it was the first time, but it still does not answer the question I asked. He referred to the embargo in the public service. Is that embargo in force or is it not?
May I explain to the Deputy again—and he knows well from his time in office—that that is a question for another Minister?
It was just as simple the fourth time as it was the first.
(Interruptions.)
Let me finish. As far as is applies to the National Manpower Service I have now sanction for two people who are being trained abroad and for three others whom I hope will be recruited next year.
Am I right in assuming that the Minister is the member of the Government with overall responsibility for job creation?
Of course he is.
I ask the Minister again if he is the Minister with overall responsibility for job creation.
The Deputy requires a guidance officer or a placement officer.
Does the Minister know if he is the Minister responsible for job creation?
Job creation has always been the collective responsibility of this Government.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Surely the Minister will know, as he got sanction for these appointments from the Department of the Public Service, whether that was a special circumstances sanction or a general sanction. Surely the communication he received from the Department of the Public Service made it clear to him whether the embargo he referred to has been lifted generally or whether it was lifted for the purpose of these two appointments. Would the Minister say whether he was so informed or what type of sanction he got?
I repeat that that is a question for another Minister.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The truth is that the embargo is as active and as much in force as it ever was and the Minister is dodging the issue.
As Deputy Harte has said, the stenographers cannot record a nod or a shake of the head. The embargo has been lifted. The Minister shook his head. Has the embargo been lifted?
(Interruption.)
The Minister's ducking and dodging is an answer in itself.
The answer in itself is the number that have already been recruited into my Department and other Departments.
(Interruptions.)
It is a completely separate issue from the question of the National Manpower Service.
It was the Minister who introduced it.
May I ask the Minister——
I am not allowing any more supplementaries on a question that has already been overworked.
It is not a further supplementary.
(Interruptions.)
Would Deputy Killilea please keep quiet. I am calling Question No. 22.
May I draw your attention to the fact that the Minister did not answer my previous supplementary? Is he the Minister of the Government with overall responsibility for job creation?
That is a separate question.
It is an entirely separate question.
It is relevant to the original answer where the Minister referred to the embargo on the Public Service. Does he know if this embargo is still in existence?
The Minister answered that question. I am calling Question No.22.
What was the answer?
The Deputy will get it in the record of the House.
The Minister did not answer it.
The Deputy will find the answer in the record of the House.