asked the Minister for Labour if he is aware of any abuse of the legislation prohibiting under 15s working; and, if so, if he will indicate the extent of the problem.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Employment of Young Persons.
13.
A very small number of contraventions of the provisions of the Young Persons (Employment) Act, 1977, in respect of work by persons under 15 years of age has been revealed as a result of inspections by my Department's inspectors and complaints to the Department. It should be noted that the Act, which has been in operation since July last only, permits persons between 14 and 15 years to do a limited amount of light non-industrial work. The position as to observance of the provisions of the Act is being kept under continuing review by the Department.
Would the Minister have the figures for convictions, if any, secured under the legislation?
There have been no prosecutions to date under the Act. The enforcement policy is to issue an official warning for a first offence save where it is a case of blatant exploitation of the young worker concerned. This policy will be reviewed next March. A number of complaints have been investigated. Six complaints were submitted. One has been investigated and proved to be unfounded; the other five are under investigation. Also, the inspectorate did issue a warning in one case.
How many inspectors are occupied or engaged in this research?
The position is that the industrial inspectorate are covering the enforcement in premises covered by the Factories, Mines and Quarries Act, 18,473 premises in all.
What I wanted is the number of people involved in each section.
The existing inspectorate of the Factories, Mines and Quarries Act are covering the areas where they work; the general inspectorate are covering the premises where they operate. There is an area being inspected by the Department at present where there is come evidence that infringements of the Act are not uncommon, for example, public-houses, supermarkets and so on.
Would the Minister agree that that phrase may be a little complacent in the circumstances because there are some areas of services which are noted for the degree to which they use what legitimately may be called child labour? Has the Minister any liaison-and if not would he now arrange it-with school attendance committees in Dublin and other areas who no doubt could throw light on this problem?
The Department are in fact seeking the help of the school attendance officers and we are concerned about the areas to which the Deputy refers. Further publicity will be given to the Act before the busy Christmas period for obvious reasons.
What sort of people make complaints? If I may be allowed to explain, I ask that question because I believe the problem is much greater than is indicated in the reply due to many school children going to work of their own volition. They are not being exploited or do not see themselves being exploited by employers but they go before they are 15 years of age. It is not the sort of thing that would be reported by many people. Will the Minister take any action to see if there is an extensive problem and if he will then consider what action can be taken to remedy it?
As I explained to the Deputy's colleague who is obviously familiar with the situation where the real problem is, the Department are at present considering that problem and reviewing it. Also, complaints from any person either in the House or outside it will be investigated.
I appreciate that the Minister is observing the implementation of the Act very closely but might I point out that there is an amazing social problem in the larger urban areas, not through the exploitation of youth but in cases where young lads previously could do certain work and now find they cannot do this? As a result, they have nothing to do; they want money and they get it in other ways. The Minister who initiated the Act meant well as did all of us but it is having this amazing effect and causing a great social problem.
Is the Minister aware of the extent of the problem or is he more concerned with making capital or scoring political points? Is he going to do anything about this, about investigating the real extent of the problem or is he going to depend on individual reports which will obviously not be nearly as frequent as actual abuses of the Act?
I am trying to be as helpful as possible. It is not a very easy situation. Problems have been raised that were not previously brought to my attention but any submissions made to me will be examined. As regards the exploitation of the under-15 workers, it is my intention to examine closely the areas that are not covered at present by the industrial inspectorate. These areas will be my main concern as they are more open to abuse. The Deputies in this House have the duty to assist the Minister and the Department in that respect, if he receives any complaints.