Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Apr 1978

Vol. 305 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Experiments on Living Animals.

41.

Mr. C. Murphy, Mr. Ahern, Mr. O. J. Flanagan, Mr. Keating, Mrs. Desmond

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health if, on humanitarian grounds and also because of the practical advantages to be gained from the use of alternative techniques wherever they are applicable, he will ask the Medical Research Council to intensify the search for more such techniques which could replace the use of living animals in those experimental fields where there appears to be as yet no alternative to using these animals; and if he will make a special grant to the Medical Research Council specifically for such a purpose.

42.

Mr. L'Estrange, Mrs. Desmond, Mr. G. Brady, Mr. Cogan, Mr. Doherty, Mr. Leonard

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health the extent to which alternative techniques have already replaced experiments and tests with living animals in this country.

Mr. Haughey

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 41 and 42 together.

I am advised that in certain areas of testing and research, for example, haemolysis and mutagenesis, alternative tests have replaced tests on live animals to some limited extent. In this regard I can assure the Deputies that in granting licences for experimentation upon live animals, regard is always had to the possibility of the work being done by alternative methods.

So far as intensification of research in this country for alternative techniques is concerned, I am sure that the Deputies will appreciate that there are only limited resources available in this country to devote to medical research and that the work to be done must be determined by the priorities in our situation and also with regard to work which is being done elsewhere.

The determination of the priorities in medical research within the resources allocated to them is a matter for the Medical Research Council. I will draw the Deputies' request to me to the council's attention and ask them for their views as to the desirability and feasibility of intensifying such research here.

Mr. Keating

Is the Minister aware that there appears to be an alarming increase in the number of experiments on live animals? All of us are aware that if there is no alternative to it, experiments on live animals are obviously essential but I would ask the Minister if he is satisfied that the apparent increase in this instance is fully justified?

Mr. Haughey

There are further questions on this matter that will throw more light on the subject and perhaps the Deputy will wait until then.

43.

Mr. C. Murphy, Dr. Woods, Mr. Meaney, Mr. L'Estrange, Mrs. Desmond, Mr. Quinn, Mr. J. Ryan

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health if he is satisfied that none of the 93,448 experiments performed on live animals in the State during 1976 could have been performed by various alternative techniques already evolved which dispense with the need to use live animals.

Mr. Haughey

Licences to experiment on live animals are given to responsible scientists on the basis of knowledge at the time of issue that there are not feasible alternative techniques which will yield the same results. I should say also that such licences are issued on the basis that the experiments and tests are absolutely necessary and will inflict the absolute minimum of suffering on the animals involved.

Mr. Keating

Will the Minister tell the House how it is determined that there are no alternative techniques? What procedure is adopted?

Mr. Haughey

On the basis of the best scientific advice available to my Department.

Mr. Keating

Are the personnel in the Department specifically employed for that purpose or are they engaged in other activities?

Mr. Haughey

We have medical advice available to us, and, through the Medical Research Council and the Medico-Social Research Board, we have expert scientific advice available.

Mr. Keating

Is the Minister satisfied that all the experiments currently being carried out under licence are fully necessary?

Mr. Haughey

I do not issue licences until I am so satisfied. I can assure the Deputy that every time I am asked for a licence the matter is carefully examined. I get a full report. I get a brief from my Department which is carefully studied before we decide to give the licence. Deputies should be aware that, in regard to some of the figures mentioned, a very very high proportion of the figure of experiments on live animals has to do with simple inoculation of rodents in the cause of cancer research. That aspect accounts for a very high proportion of the numbers.

Mr. Keating

Is the Minister aware are any of these experiments carried out for purposes of the cosmetic industry or that kind of thing?

Mr. Haughey

No, certainly not. No such licences have ever been issued.

44.

Mr. Connolly, Mr. O. J. Flanagan, Mr. B. Desmond, Mr. Calleary, Mr. Keating

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health the amounts the Government granted towards medical research during 1976 and 1977; and the proportion that was spent on research involving the use of live animals.

Mr. Haughey

The total contributions made by my Department for medical research in 1976 and 1977 were divided between two bodies—the Medical Research Council and the Medico-Social Research Board. The grants to the Medical Research Council amounted to £321,800 in 1976 and £357,000 in 1977. Approximately, one-third of these amounts was spent on experiments involving the use of live animals.

In 1976 the Medico-Social Research Board was paid £207,000 and in 1977 that board was granted £220,000. None of this money was spent on research or experimentation involving live animals.

45.

Mr. L'Estrange, Mr. B. Desmond, Mr. Quinn, Mr. Leonard, Mr. McCreevy

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health (1) the reason for the further increase in the number of licensed experiments on live animals in the State during 1976; and (2) the various purposes for which these 93,448 experiments during 1976 were performed and the number of experiments in each case.

Mr. Haughey

The increase in 1976 in the number of experiments performed involving the use of live animals arose very largely from simple inoculation tests, the vast bulk of which were done on rodents.

On the basis of a general analysis of the licensees' returns, 90,472 of the 93,448 experiments in 1976 were concerned with simple inoculation tests on rodents. Of these 90,472 tests 70,749 were done by one licensee concerned with cancer research. The remainder were distributed over a number of licensees using, in the main, rodents for pyrogen and toxicity testing of medicines.

46.

Mr. Moore, Mr. O.J. Flanagan, Mr. B. Desmond, Mr. N. Andrews, Mr. Keating, Mrs. Desmond, Mr. Calleary, Mr. L'Estrange, Mr. Quinn, Mr. Meaney, Mr. J. Ryan

andMr. Leonard asked the Minister for Health if he has received any convention or recommendations relating to animals used for laboratory purposes or scientific purposes from the Committee of Experts on the Protection of Animals, which met last year under the auspices of the Council of Europe; and if so, if he will give particulars.

Mr. Haughey

I have not received any Council of Europe convention or recommendation concerning the use of animals for laboratory or scientific purposes. I understand that the Council's Committee of Experts on the Protection of Animals at its meeting in January 1978 commenced consideration of the question of a convention on the welfare of laboratory animals.