Vol. 307 No. 1
asked the Minister for Labour if he is aware of recent allegations of grossly inadequate fire safety precautions at the premises of a firm (details supplied) recently destroyed by a fire which almost resulted in serious loss of life; and if he will publish the details of the inspector's certificate granted to the firm.
3.
asked the Minister for Labour if he will draft the necessary legislation to ensure public access to inspectors' reports and certificates in relation to fire safety precautions at business premises.
4.
asked the Minister for Labour the most recent occasion on which the clothing factory on Merchant's Quay, Dublin, which was burned down recently, was inspected; and the findings of this most recent inspection.
: I propose with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle to take Questions Nos. 2, 3 and 4 together.
I am aware of the press reports in this matter.
These premises were inspected by an inspector of my Department on 27 February 1978. It has not been the practice to make public the reports of inspections by the Department's inspectors under the Factories Act, 1955, which are confidential documents and which in some instances may lead to legal proceedings. However, I am proposing in the Safety in Industry Bill, at present before the House, to make provision for the communication of certain information to representatives of workers.
In regard to means of escape in case of fire, the primary concern of the Department's inspector, under section 45 of the Factories Act, is to check that a certificate of means of escape in case of fire issued by the local sanitary authority is in force, and that these means of escape are properly maintained and kept free of obstruction. The inspector who inspected the premises on 27 February confirmed that a certificate was in force and that the means of escape specified in that certificate were available.
Any question regarding certificates of means of escape in case of fire would be a matter for the local sanitary authority who, under the Factories Act, 1955, are responsible for issuing them.
My colleague, the Minister for the Environment, has recently told this House that the local authorities have been urged on numerous occasions to intensify their fire prevention work and that this, as well as other aspects of the local fire service, is now being reviewed locally as part of the general examination of the state of the service which local authorities have been asked to undertake. I will be consulting with the Minister concerning factories or other work places coming within my area of responsibility.
: Might I ask the Minister, if in fact there were defects in the fire safety position in this factory? Does he not feel that he should inquire into the reason for their existence after, apparently, a safe certificate had been given to the factory? Is it that after the certificate was given precautions were not available to people; we hear that there was one exit only, that that was difficult to reach and that there were iron grills on the windows. In the circumstances is the Minister satisfied that a certificate should have been given and, if a certificate was given, were the conditions under which it was issued in operation at the time of the fire?
: I should explain to the House again that my information is that the inspection of 27 February related to the general inspection in addition to the issuing of the certificate by the sanitary authority and to ensuring that the requirements of that certificate were complied with. My information is that these were.
: Is the Minister aware that this certificate to which he referred was issued 20 years prior to the date of this inspection, which took place on 27 February? If he is so aware can he say whether the initial certificate and subsequent inspection two decades later allowed for the installation of grills and bars at the window which took place in the interim and which were not referred to, as far as I am aware, in the initial certificate?
: The issuing of a fire certificate by the sanitary authority in the case of fire is the first requirement. When the regular inspection is carried out by the inspector of my Department he checks that the requirements of that certificate are complied with.
: Is it not theoretically possible, and perhaps factually possible in this case, that alterations to the windows or any other aspect of a building could after significantly the effect of the fire escapes mentioned in the initial certificate and that the subsequent inspection seeks to confirm only that the initial conditions remain? It does not seek, apparently, to consider to what extent subsequent operations might affect that certificate, and this is the weakness of the whole process.
: The certificate provides for certain means of escape and they are referred to. In this case the compliance was with the requirements of the certificate. As the Deputy is aware, the Minister for the Environment has already been questioned on this in this House and has made known the fact that he is intensifying the fire prevention and fire precautions situation.
: I ask the Minister, finally, is it not possible that the subsequent inspection could have confirmed the existence of a fire escape but it might have had no reference to bars placed at the bottom of that fire escape which would mean that the provision of the fire escape was pointless? In other words that sort of contradiction or paradox is not allowed for under the present situation. Is the Minister aware that in this case but for the very good work of the Dublin Brigade there could have been an enormous tragedy?
: I am not so aware.
: Leaving aside all the apparent confusion, the Minister has not made his answer very clear, to me anyway. Would he not agree that in this instance a number of lives were seriously in danger as a result of some misconceptions, some misuse or failure to carry out the spirit if not the letter of the law here? In these circumstances should the question not be reviewed and should detailed inspectors' reports not be made available to the public and especially to this House?
: I have explained to the Deputy the provision of a report by the inspectors of my Department under the Factories Act, 1955. As I have said, I propose under the Safety in Industry Bill to make these reports available to the workers' representatives in the future.
: How frequently are inspections carried out by local authority officials and by officials of the Minister's Department? What action takes place after a report is furnished to the Minister's Department? Finally, what power has the Minister if a company fails to implement the recommendations contained in the fire officer's report?
: The first part of the Deputy's question refers to another Minister who has already been questioned in this House on the subject. The sanitary authority issues a certificate and then when the inspector inspects the premises concerned his concern naturally is to ensure that the escapes and so forth as detailed in that certificate still apply.
: Does the Minister——
: The Deputy said some time ago that he was asking a last supplementary question.
: Very finally, does the placing of bars and/or grills on the windows of a factory such as this comply with the Minister's requirements for factory safety?
: I have answered that question already.
: The Minister has not answered it. Would he like to answer it now?
: Question No. 5.
