asked the Minister for Education the available information and statistics on participation ratios in third-level education in Ireland, and in each other EEC country; if he will make a statement on the relatively low level of participation in third-level education in Ireland; and if he is aware of the statements in the HEA report entitled Observations of the Higher Education Authority on Paragraph 7.33 in the Green Paper: Development for Full Employment which states in page 2 that, of all the EEC countries, Ireland has the lowest percentage of students in higher education; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Third-Level Education.
23.
Information in regard to enrolment numbers in third-level educational institutions in the EEC countries and demographic statistics by age-groups is made available in the following publications: Enrolment Data: Eurostat Education statistics 1970-1975. Population Data: Eurostat Demographic Statistics 1970-1976. These publications are issued by the Office for Official Publications of the European Communities.
In this connection I should emphasise that in drawing conclusions from statistical comparisons of enrolments in different countries it is necessary to have regard to factors which make it difficult to express such comparisons in terms which truly reflect the situation. In so far as Ireland is concerned the early age of admission to third-level educational institutions and the relatively low percentage of students of 24 years of age and upwards are features which, inter alia, should be borne in mind.
I would be concerned that the statement of the Higher Education Authority referred to in the question from the Deputy may give a misleading impression of the situation in Ireland in relation to access to and participation in education at third level.
I may add that I do not consider that an approach based on an attempted comparison of international statistics of enrolments would be a proper basis for policy decisions in the formulation of educational policy for a programme of educational development at third level.
Am I right in assuming that the Minister's reply indicates that the HEA statement is in fact inaccurate or wrongly stated? Secondly, does the Minister accept that the evidence in that statement and the implication in the question is that by and large and allowing for the statistical differentials which he referred to there is nevertheless strong evidence to indicate that the percentage of pupils in higher education here is among the lowest in the EEC?
There are two parts in the Deputy's supplementary question. The first is: am I saying that the figures are wrong? What I said is this: It is difficult to compare like with like. For example in Ireland, quite a number of people go into third level at 17 and some even at 16. The relevant figure in the first column of the statistics I mentioned give third-level enrolment as a percentage of the 18-24 population group. For the United Kingdom that is 9.3; for Ireland, 9.2. That does not take into account our 17-year-olds in third-level education whereas there are few if any at 17 years in third level in Britain and practically none on the continent where the normal starting age is about 19. There is another point: when you talk about the percentage of a particular age group in any level you must take cognisance of the percentage that group is of the total population of the particular country. It happens that particular age group in our population is very high as of now. It is not an easy thing to come to a straight conclusion in comparisons.
While accepting that there are always difficulties in making international comparisons, could the Minister say what he proposes to do to improve our position relative to these countries over the next two or three years?
As the Deputy knows I shall be publishing a White Paper on the whole field of education in 1979. I have plans to develop the National Institute for Higher Education in Dublin and to increase the number of places in the technological sector. I also have forward-going studies in the HEA on the need for third-level education generally in the Dublin area and in the country at large.