asked the Minister for Justice, if in the light of the Taoiseach's statement made at the official opening of the Incorporated Law Society premises at Blackhall Place, Dublin, in regard to civil legal aid, and in the light of the statement made by the Counsel on behalf of the State in a case (details supplied) he is yet in a position to announce a decision and proposals in the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Civil Legal Aid.
11.
There is nothing new in the statement of principle made by Counsel for the State in the recent case in Strasbourg. An undertaking that legal aid would be extended to civil cases where necessary, and with particular reference to family law cases, was contained in the pre-election manifesto. I myself, when opening a Women's Centre in Leeson Street, Dublin, in September last, said the following:
It is not possible for a Government, consistent with its other responsibilities, simply to take a complex report such as the Pringle Report and say "we accept it". We are talking not only of substantial sums of money but also of basic approaches to the problem, approaches which may determine the pattern of a scheme for many years. However, I want to make it clear that the Government are committed to introducing civil legal aid and there is no question about our intention to honour that commitment.
The Taoiseach's statement, referred to in the question, related to when a scheme might be ready, not to whether there would be a scheme, as that is already decided.
I am not in a position to say when any further statement may be made on the matter but I hope that a scheme may be ready by the end of the year.
Does the fact that a sum of only £1,000 is mentioned in the Estimates under the heading "Civil legal aid" indicate that there will be no such scheme in operation in the current year?
No, that would not be so.
In the light of the statement, which I recollect correctly, by Mr. Niall McCarthy, State Counsel at Strasbourg, that he hoped that a civil legal aid scheme would be introduced before the end of the current year, can the Minister confirm that such a statement was made with the authority of the Government?
Of course.
Will the Minister comment on the fact that the Minister of State responsible for law reform, being questioned after the announcement by Mr. McCarthy, did not appear to have any knowledge that such an announcement would be made in Strasbourg?
The Deputy will appreciate that the Minister of State is not a member of the Government. He will also appreciate that the Minister of State has just recently been appointed to help me with my ministerial responsibilities.
Is the Minister saying——
I am calling the next question.
This is an important matter.
It may be important but we have had enough questions on it by the Deputy already.
Civil legal aid is of considerable importance to the country. It is not a local issue. May I take it that the decision of the Government, if there is a decision, was not communicated to the Minister of State who is responsible for implementing that decision?
I should like to inform the Deputy that I am the Minister for Justice. I am the Minister responsible in this House for this matter and all other matters that come within my area of responsibility.
May I take it that the Minister will confirm the statement by State Counsel at Strasbourg that a civil legal aid scheme will be in operation before the end of the current year?
I would refer the Deputy to the earlier part of my reply. I dealt with that matter.
Will the Minister give a specific answer, yes or no? That would be helpful in view of the evasions we have had to face since December 1977 when the Pringle Report was produced.
I refer the Deputy to my original answer to the question tabled by him.
May we take it that the Minister is not in a position to give a simple straightforward answer to the question?
No, the Deputy may not do that. I have answered the question.
(Cavan-Monaghan): May I take it that the Minister is saying the Minister of State did not know what he was talking about?
If the Deputy wants to score a political point on someone who is not here I will not try to stop him except to say that he should not.
Does the Minister think it is fair not to tell the Minister of State if he had any plans?
I am calling the next question. We are straying from the question.