asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is in a position to give, as promised in reply to an earlier question, an estimate of the number of persons whose disappearance from the live register he considers is attributable to intensified inspection and investigation of claims.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Live Register Numbers.
28.
As I have previously indicated in reply to similar questions from the Deputy, it is not possible to state categorically the number of persons who left the live register because it was known that measures were being taken by my Department to combat abuses.
Following my undertaking to the Deputy on that occasion to try to secure some firm information I have ascertained that since the Special Investigation Unit was established in July 1978, they have investigated about 2,000 allegations of abuse and of those some 650 were found to be substantiated.
Will the Minister put a figure on the number of people who have been frightened off the register without necessarily having been investigated?
That is something I cannot quantify, as I stated in my reply. The fact that this special fraud team are carrying out these investigations I assume means that some people would automatically leave and not wait to be investigated.
I am aware that the Minister cannot put a rough figure on this but can we take it that, since there are 13 extra officials in the Minister's Department doing nothing else but trying to nose out the fiddlers on the dole register, the effect of their operations has been substantial?
I have given the figures. They investigated 2,000 cases and 650 of them were found to be cases of abuse.
Are the Department satisfied that the effect of this operation has been substantially to reduce the live register?
I do not know.
If so it is a poor substitute for job creation.
I assume the Deputy shares with me a wish that there would not be fraudulent abuse.
I do but I would not call it job creation.
I do not call it job creation either.
No, because this Minister puts a large distance between himself and his colleagues' operations——
The Deputy always brings argument to bear at Question Time.
That is what this House is all about.
It is not what Question Time is about and the Chair must ensure that it does not develop.
I went to some trouble to get some quantitative figures for the Deputy on this matter.
I appreciate that.
In relation to the 650 cases in which the Minister said there was some substance to the allegations I should like to know whether they are all cases referring to claimants, unemployed people, or whether any of them relate to fraud by employers?
They relate to claimants. The position in relation to employers is a separate operation. These figures refer to claimants. I do not disagree with the Deputy that the fault is not all on one side.
The Minister is always magnanimous.