Vol. 316 No. 13
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the up-to-date position in Cambodia giving an estimate of the number expected to die there from starvation and details of steps being taken at national and EC levels to alleviate the situation.
8.
andMr. C. Murphy asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on his Department's role in co-ordinating relief aid for Kampuchea or Cambodia.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to answer Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
The scale of the present tragedy in Kampuchea is so great that only a major concerned effort by the international community will be able to have an impact on the situation. While it is impossible to give precise figures, it is the general belief that as many as one to two million Kampucheans could die from starvation by the end of the year, unless the relief effort proves to be effective—I should say here that this reply was formulated, I think, a month ago so it was taking a three-month scale into account.
As an initial national response to this tragedy, I announced on 9 October a contribution of £50,000 from the Disaster Relief fund of my Department to the joint UNICEF/ICRC relief programme for Kampuchea, and which aims to meet Kampuchea's basic needs in food, drugs and other essentials over the next six months. This programme is now operational, but it is vitally important that its momentum be maintained if the efforts to counter famine and disease are to be effective.
Two days later, on 11 October, I announced a further contribution of £50,000 to the national appeal launched by six voluntary agencies with whom I had, at my request, a detailed discussion on the situation in Kampuchea on the previous day, and with whom I continue to remain in close contact. In responding to the national appeal, I also indicated the Government's willingness to support programmes of emergency assistance organised by these and other organisations on an individual basis.
In this regard, Deputies will be aware that the Government agreed to underwrite the cost of a plane to airlift food and medical supplies to Kampuchea, organised by the relief agency, GOAL, and which has successfully completed its mission. We are happy also to be able to assist in the practical arrangements for this very generous humanitarian effort.
Given the very great need to ensure that relief, whether provided bilaterally or through intergovernmental and international organisations, is co-ordinated in the most effective way possible, I have been maintaining close contact with my colleagues in the Community. At the recent informal meeting of Foreign Ministers of the Nine in Ashford Castle, which I chaired, I raised the question of further and most urgent Community aid for Kampuchea. We agreed that the Community should look immediately at additional ways in which it could respond and, in order to give best effect to this decision, I immediately convened a meeting in Dublin of senior officials including aid experts. Subsequently, on 30 October, the Council of Ministers, meeting in Luxembourg under my chairmanship, decided that a further $35 million should be made available for relief from Community resources.
It is crucial that this momentum be maintained. For this reason an aid co-ordination meeting between the Commission and the Nine was held in Brussels last week. This meeting afforded member states and the Commission an important opportunity to evaluate measures already put into effect and to examine, in the light of the uncovered needs of the international organisations and others, what further concrete steps might be taken. Thus, for example, an immediate request from the ICRC for three aircraft to replace the Hercules, provided by the British government and due to be withdrawn on 18 November for servicing, was met by offers of aircraft from France, Netherlands and also by Australia. This co-ordination between the Community and the international agencies will continue for it is, as I said at the beginning of my reply, imperative that we have the maximum co-ordinated effort in responding to this tragedy, if we are to make an effective and decisive impact on it.
Is the Minister satisfied that the sum of £100,000 provided by the State is an adequate response from this country to the appalling situation that exists in Kampuchea?
No, that is not the extent of the State's response, even though that was referred to specifically in my reply, because I also mentioned the cost of underwriting the plane to Kampuchea, which is very considerable also. Also, as I have indicated we are ready to respond—and this purely on a bilateral basis—to any further programmes that will arise. I want to remind the Deputy also that the State has already made a huge commitment in terms of anything we had done previously in respect of Indo-Chinese refugees generally, by far the biggest we have ever even contemplated, though I suppose the problem did not exist to the same extent before. Finally, of course, there is the contribution which we make through the EEC. Therefore, across the whole range of these, I can assure the Deputy that Ireland's position is, let us say, respectable and is seen to be such.
The Minister may take the view that the Irish position is respectable. Does he not feel that in view of the critical—the only word one can use for the situation in Cambodia at present—situation there at present, in view of the numbers involved, running into million of people, in view also of the time scale involved and the probability of deaths by starvation over the next six to eight weeks, despite what he has done—and I compliment him for providing a plane for GOAL—we should be making a really special effort in this case particularly as, with the Presidency of the EEC, it may encourage other countries similarly to do better than they are doing?
I do feel we should make a special effort and I would like to think that is precisely what we have been doing. I referred to the Ashford Castle meeting at which we did specifically bring up this question. The consequence of that was that within ten days—which anyone will recognise is a record for Community action—commitments totalling over 55 million dollars, more than half the total amount being sought by the Secretary General of the United Nations in the report which issued one day before the Ashford Castle meeting, was committed by the member states and by the Community. That was effective and immediate action.
In reply to the second point—this is the view of the Secretary General and not mine—the problem is not necessarily the amount of aid that is available; it is the problem of the distribution of that aid. That is the area in which the international community is trying to work effectively, to get what is available through.
What guarantees has the Minister on the precise point of distribution that the aid, such as food and medicines, is getting through to the starving people? What efforts have been made to have the overland truck route from Thailand and also the two Kampuchean airports made available to penetrate deep into the country where the starvation is worst?
I would like to be able to tell the Deputy that one had a cast-iron guarantee but, unfortunately, one does not have that. However, from all the information we have from our regular contact which we had on the occasion of the Taoiseach's discussion with the Secretary General of the United Nations, we are informed that the ICRC and the UNICEF organisations are satisfied, to the extent that they can be, with the distribution channels at this stage. I believe, as they believe, that there can be considerable further improvement in the areas referred to by the Deputy. Ideally, we would expect that these roadways would be opened up to free and unlimited access. It is a problem that can be easily identified but not so easily solved.
I support Deputy O'Keeffe in recognising that the distribution problems are very serious and I should like an assurance from the Minister, to the extent that these problems are eased and that the opportunity will then exist for additional aid to be given, that the Government would be willing to increase their contribution further in accordance with what I believe is the united view of the Irish people. If necessary the Minister should seek further funds from the Dáil if the disaster relief provision is exhausted.
I take note of the suggestion of the Leader of Fine Gael on this matter. I should like to indicate that it was at my invitation that the voluntary organisations visited me and we have worked very closely since then. I have also indicated that I am currently considering further support for relief operations on a bilateral basis but that can only be effective when the question of distribution is satisfactory.
I welcome the efforts the Minister has made but I should like to ask him if, in his capacity as President of the Council of Ministers of the EEC, during his recent visit to the United States he brought to the attention of the United States that they were largely responsible for the destruction of the state of Cambodia in the first instance? I should like to know if he attempted in his capacity as President of the Council of Ministers of the EEC to get a commitment that the United States will drop as many dollars in aid on the Cambodian State as they dropped dollars in bombs over the last decade?
The Deputy has his own reasons for making such a statement.
It may be an emotional statement but——
The answer to the Deputy's question is no.
Is the question not relevant when it is put to the Minister in his capacity as President of the Council of Ministers of the EEC? The wealthiest nation in the world could destroy this country——
I am calling on Deputy Ciaran Murphy to put a final supplementary question to the Minister.
Let us realise why these people of Kampuchea are starving; it was not an accident of history.
While I appreciate that the Department did underwrite the flight costs of Messrs. Phillips and O'Shea, whom I compliment, so that the money they had would go directly in relief aid, I should like to know if the Minister is aware of any further immediate individual relief effort of a similar nature? Is there any further money available in the Department to meet flight costs and ensure that the money collected does not purely go on administration?
I am not aware of any effort such as this but I am aware that the various organisations are contemplating what they can do. Equally, they are conscious of the fact that distribution is the problem. We are looking at further possibilities but we are concerned about effective distribution. I am pleased to say in one sense that the Department's coffers are almost dry at this stage because of the response we have given to this problem.
Is the Minister aware that the view of this House is almost unaminous on the need to give as much aid as possible to Kampuchea? Is there anything else the Irish people can do to respond even better to the needs of the people of that country?
I am aware of the view of the House and I hope it is understood that it is a view I have acted upon. As far as what the Irish people can do I should like to tell the Deputy that there are many relief organisations looking for support, particularly in terms of medicines as distinct from food. Apparently, medicines are in great need also. In the final analysis our people, like all Members, would be concerned to know that what is being supplied is given to those who are starving. I hope that according as we get further assurances from the United Nations High Commission For Refugees and from UNICEF we can give further indications to the Irish people as to how they can help.
