Vol. 317 No. 4
asked the Minister for the Environment the reason for the long delay in having final inspections carried out on reconstruction work and new houses for grant purposes in County Kilkenny, the number of applications outstanding at present and the longest outstanding application in that county.
25.
asked the Minister for the Environment if his attention has been drawn to the dissatisfaction caused by delays in payment of the £1,000 new house grant, the number of applicants awaiting payment, the reasons for the delays and the steps, if any, being taken to avoid delays in the future.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 18 and 25 together.
The present delays in carrying out inspections in County Kilkenny and elsewhere derive from the unprecedented volume of housing grant applications reaching my Department. In the three months ended 31 October 1979, 23,796 applications were received compared with 10,278 for the same period last year. Additional staff is being recruited to deal with the increased volume of housing grant applications and I am also reviewing housing grant procedures with a view to improving the service to the public. It would require a considerable amount of staff time to extract the information requested in relation to outstanding applications and since many are outstanding for reasons outside the control of my Department, such as work not proceeding or no planning permission, the diversion of staff time would not be justified.
First of all, may I protest at a question relating to a national matter being lumped in with a question by Deputy Crotty about County Kilkenny, which I consider to be highly inappropriate? Having said that, the Minister mentioned a figure—I was trying to read Deputy Crotty's question at the time to ascertain the linkage between it and mine—which I did not catch. What was the figure for the number of applications outstanding and did it relate to Kilkenny or to the country as a whole?
I will repeat the appropriate portion of the answer:
The present delays in carrying out inspection in County Kilkenny and elsewhere derive from the unprecedented volume of housing grant applications reaching my Department.
That is, nationally. To continue:
In the three months ended 31 October 1979, 23,796 applications were received compared with 10,278 for the same period last year.
Of course they were; they could not be posted beforehand. What sort of an answer is that? For God's sake—this is the Minister for the Environment—what kind of an answer is that, to say in the three months preceding October? What kind of trick artistry is this? The place was closed down for six months.
The figures are prepared on a quarterly basis.
We are not that easily conned.
Order, Deputy, please.
I apologise to the House but that is a disgraceful answer to give to anybody.
Why are grants not paid, or files not returned by inspectors, if the buildings have been inspected and passed? Why are the inspectors taking such a long period to return the files? It appears that files are being withheld so that grants cannot be paid to waiting applicants.
I feel sure that is not correct, Deputy. The delay at inspection level is because of the number of inspections an inspector has to carry out resulting from increased applications. The Deputy is saying that inspectors are withholding the files. I have no knowledge of that and if the Deputy has any details of such I should like to have them.
Certainly in the Kilkenny area I have a feeling that files are not being returned. Could the Minister investigate that possibility?
Certainly I will, and if the Deputy has details of any specific instance I shall be glad to have them. I should like to point out that in that area normally there are four inspectors. At present there are three additional inspectors in that area in an effort to have inspections carried out more quickly.
Could the Minister investigate a case—details of which I shall give him—in which reconstruction was passed in September 1978 and in which two further inspections have since been called for? In other words, the file concerned has been sent back twice and——
If the Deputy would let me have the details I will have the matter investigated.
Seemingly there is bedlam in that section. That is why I put down this question.
Would the Minister abolish the inspections altogether?
Does the Minister accept that there is a very long delay in the payment of grants due?
I agree that there is a delay at present and I have given the reasons therefor more than once in this House. It is because of the volume of applications and the delay in recruiting more people, which we have done, and will continue to do, even for the purpose of carrying out inspections in addition to work in the administrative section. I might add also that at present they are working overtime at both administrative and inspectorate level.
How then does the Minister account for the delay in issuing the cheques after the inspector has inspected the house and passed it?
The second part of what I said would account for some delay—the volume of work at administration level. We are recruiting and have recruited more staff there. Practically all of the staff in that area, as far as I am aware, are working overtime in an effort to keep up with the volume of work.
Could the Minister give an indication of the average delay involved between the time the Department are requested to inspect, the time of inspection and the time of payment?
The average delay?
Yes.
No, I have not got the average delay.
How many staff has the Minister employed to deal with the new house grant? How many are employed now? What increase has taken place over the past 12 months and what is the projected increase over coming months to effect an improvement in the situation?
I do not know the number of staff involved. I will let the Deputy have it.
As far as I can see the Minister does not have any information in reply to a very legitimate question which is causing a lot of concern. I protest at the effort to avoid my question by lumping it in with a question from Kilkenny and at the Minister not replying to my supplementary questions.
In relation to Question No. 18, will the Minister indicate the number of applications outstanding at present and the longest outstanding application in that county?
The number of applications filed with inspectors in Kilkenny is: new house, 70; house improvements, 341; and the total was 422 on 9 November 1979.
In relation to the second part of the question put down by Deputy Crotty, how long is the longest outstanding application in the Department?
Two cases in this area have been outstanding for most of the year. Probably the reason is that the inspector called on more than one occasion and could not gain admittance.
Why was that information not given directly to Deputy Crotty?
Would the Minister agree that there is a genuine administrative problem in his Department which he is attempting to solve and that whoever is responsible for drafting those answers should get some kind of ministerial request to improve his performance in future? I would not accept that.
There is a problem which we are solving.
Whoever wrote those briefs——
Question No. 19.
Is the Minister aware that by not specifically answering the question put by Deputy Crotty he is being most deceitful to the House and most disrespectful to Deputy Crotty?
I answered the Deputy's question and I do not agree with the Deputy that I am deceiving the House. In relation to the type of information sought, I said in my reply that it would not warrant taking staff off the area where the pressure was to get these grants paid out in order to compile all the information requested.
The Minister was asked two specific questions about the delays outstanding.
We have had enough speakers on this.
The Minister did not give a direct response to the question nor to supplementaries from a Member of the House. The Minister had the information hidden. That is most disrespectful to a Member of the House.
On one specific aspect——
Question No. 19.
I want to add my voice——
We have had a large number of questions.
I put down a question and I want to make a protest. I do not bother the House too often with questions. I took the Minister's word that staff could not be retained to get this type of information. I took the Minister's word in good faith but when Deputy Quinn raised the matter the information was available. That is not proper.
Hear, hear.
I disagree with the Minister about the longest delay. Is the Minister sure that the longest delay is 12 months? I have given the Minister details of an application which was passed in September 1978 and is not yet paid, although that application had been in for a long period before September 1978. How does the Minister reconcile that with his answer?
I said approximately 12 months.
That is at least two years.
I would also point out that these long delays are not always the fault of the inspectors or of my Department. Requests are often made to the applicants for certain information like planning permission and often they neglect to send it on for some time.
I can furnish the Minister with a long list of applicants who have not been paid and who are not at fault in relation to forwarding information. I wish to register my protest.
The Deputy has had more than his share of time.
Has the Minister got the money to pay them?
Yes.
