Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Nov 1980

Vol. 323 No. 9

Supplementary Estimates, 1980. - Vote 34: Higher Education.

Aire Oideachais (Mr. Wilson)

: Tairgim:

Go ndeonófar suim fhorlíontach nach nó ná £4,039,000 chun íoctha an mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Nollaig, 1980, le haghaidh deontais-i-gcabhair don Udarás um Árd-Oideachas, d'Institiúidí agus Seirbhísí áirithe Ardoideachais agus d'Institiúid Ard-Léinn Bhaile Átha Cliath.

Beidh cuimhne ag Teachtaí gur glacadh leis an gcéad Meastachán Fóirlíontach, i méid £205,000, i leith Vóta 34 i Mí an Mheithimh imbliana. Theastaigh an t-airgead breise sin ó Bhord na nOspidéal i gCorcaigh chun cur ar a gcumas na dlitinis chonarthacha a bhain le tógáil an ospidéil nua fiaclóireachta ansin a choinneáil glanta go deireadh na bliana seo.

Anois tá an dara Meastachán Fóirlíontach á lorg, i méid £4,039,000, go príomha chun costais bhreise tuarastail ins na Colaistí lolscoile agus ins na hInstitiúidí Ainmnithe Ardoideachais a íoc. Baineann na costais bhreise seo le méaduithe tuarastail a cuireadh i bhfeidhm sna hinstitiúidí sin de thoradh moltaí Uí Dhoibhlin (Devlin) maidir le pá na n-ardoifigeach sa tseirbhís poiblí, agus de thoradh socruithe éagsúla eile a tugadh i gcrích tríd an gcóras idir-réitigh agus eadrána.

Chomh maith leis sin, táthar ag breith ar an bhfaill chun soláthar d'arduithe éagsúla pá sna hinstitiúidí eile a thagann faoin Vóta seo.

Seo iad na mionsonraí:

Fo-mhírcheann A.1: Ins an £43,000 atá á lorg anseo tá £30,800 a bhaineann le harduithe pá a tháining chun cinn i rith na bliana agus narbh fhéidir soláthar a dhéanamh dóibh sa mheastachán bhunaidh.

Fo-mhírcheann A.2: Tá iomlán breise de £3,823,000 ag teastáil i leith arduithe pá a tháinig chun cinn i gcaitheamh na bliana agus nár deineadh soláthar dóibh sna bun-mheastacháin. Seo iad na príomh neithe atá san áireamh:

Moltaí Uí Dhoibhlin (Devlin) arna gcur i bhfeidhm sna coláistí agus ins na hinstitiúidí ardoideachais, £2,139,600;

Ardaithe éagsúla pá a tugadh d'oibrithe neamh-acadúla trén gcóras idir-réitigh agus eadrána, £1,317,000;

Costas arduithe i ranníoca Leasa Shóisialaigh na bhfostóirí, £179,200;

Costais bhreise aoisliúntais, £95,500;

Riaráistí a bhain le cothromú pá, £38,100.

Fo-mhírceann B: Tá suim bhreise de £95,000 á lorg don Ospidéal Fiaclóireachta i mBaile Atha Cliath chun íoc as árdaithe speisialta tuarastail, ar a náirítear dámhachtain Uí Dhoibhlin. Is i leith mion-rudaí nach mbaineann le pá an £4,000 eile atá san áireamh anseo.

Fo-mhírceann E: Is i leith costais na n-árduithe speisialta pá (arduithe Uí Dhoibhlin ina measc) an £78,000 atá ag teastáil d'Institiúid Ardléinn Bhaile Atha Cliath.

Agus na méaduithe atá i gceist ins an Meastachán Fóirlíontach seo á gcur san áireamh, is é £58,812,000 an t-iomlán atá á chur ar fáil go dtí seo imbliana sa Vóta Ardoideachais, sin méadú de £7,253,000. Méadú suntasach é sin ar an dáiliú airgid a deineadh don ardoideachas anuraidh agus ar ndóigh ní áiritear ann an soláthar breise a bheidh le déanamh chun costas na comhthuisceana náisiúnta, gur glacadh léi le deireannas, a ghlanadh.

Seo iad na méaduithe go dti seo ar an soláthar a deineadh sa bhliain 1979, atá i gceist le gach fo-mhircheann den Mheastachán Fóirlíontach:

Fo-mhírcheann A.1 — £74,700; Fo-mhírcheann A.2 — £8,075,600; Fo-mhírcheann A.2 — £8,075,600; Fo-mhírcheann B — £193,000; Fo-mhírcheann E — £57,000.

Cuirim an Meastachán Fóirlíontach ós comhair na Dála Dá réir sin agus iarraim go nglacfar leis.

Mr. E. Collins

: I take it that this will be the first of a series of Estimates between now and the end of the year to ensure that sufficient finance will be available to the various educational sectors. This Supplementary Estimate deals mainly with the requirements resulting from the Devlin Report and a number of other minor awards made through the conciliation and arbitration machinery. The Devlin awards are costing £2,139,600 and the latter awards amount to £1,317,300. Obviously the Supplementary Estimate is welcome.

The situation in university colleges is especially serious and I understand that appointments which fall to be made through retirements or vacancies are being postponed in many faculties. I understand that maintenance programmes are not being carried out due to lack of funds. A difficulty might arise because the academic year begins in October and finishes in the summer whereas the financial year begins in January and ends in December. Certainly the colleges are very short of funds and serious long-term damage may be done to machinery and to buildings because maintenance programmes are not being carried out. That would be most unfortunate and I would ask the Minister to examine the situation in the colleges especially in the universities which I understand are the hardest hit, with a view to coming back with a Supplementary Estimate to ensure that maintenance programmes can be carried out and that vacancies when they arise in the academic staff or the non-academic staff can be filled promptly.

There was apparently a guideline of a five per cent increase to the colleges to cover inflation. We all know that the inflation rate is not near five per cent and that in the year just passing it will be between 16 and 20 per cent. According to the experts the inflation rate is now falling slightly. The five per cent increase is completely inadequate and it is quite ridiculous. It will result in a substantial shortfall of finance for the colleges. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that extra funds will be made available.

I know very little about the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies but I believe they are deeply involved in Celtic studies and physics at a post-graduate level. Should that institute not be designated under the Higher Education Authority for the purpose of unifying planning under one authority? I understand that there is no problem in relation to the activities of the institute and since we have a Higher Education Authority with a statutory role it might be a good idea to designate the institute under that Authority.

We always find it rather difficult to get any information about what happens in the Dublin Dental Hospital mostly because there is an input on the health side for planning. The dental hospital stands out in the Estimates as an odd looking creature. As a student I attended the dental hospital to have my teeth attended to at no cost and that sort of thing is very welcome. The dental hospital does very good work for the people of Dublin and I would like a discussion in the House on its future.

This Supplementary Estimate is very welcome in so far as it is needed to cover the Devlin award and the conciliation and arbitration awards. I appeal to the Minister to acquaint himself with the dire crisis which is evident in the colleges on the finance side. There is a serious shortfall in finances in all our colleges and it is affecting appointments and the maintenance programmes. Will the Minister come back with a Supplementary Estimate so as to ensure that our colleges do not have to postpone appointments and can continue their maintenance programmes?

Mr. Horgan

: Far be it for me to raise my voice in opposition to this Supplementary Estimate. We all know that it is to pay the necessary salary increases and other costs for some of the most important institutions of higher education. The grant-in-aid to University College Dublin, is an additional grant for general purposes including a grant for the department in modern Irish language and literature for the best part of a million pounds, £952,500 to be exact. A couple of months ago the authorities of University College, Dublin, put an advertisement into the paper for five, six or seven associate professorships whose salaries would range from £11,500 to £14,000. There is nothing unusual about the university advertising an associate professorship at £11,000. What caught my attention in that advertisement was a little note included in it to the effect that these posts were intended to supply promotional opportunities within the college and their advertisement was solely to comply with the statute. I rang the college to find out if I or anybody else were to apply for any one of these jobs would the application from outside the college be seriously considered.

Mr. Wilson

: The Deputy has a question down about that today.

Mr. Horgan

: I am well aware of the question but it is equally in order on this Estimate. I have several questions down today but I do not propose to raise them all on the Estimate. This question is particularly relevant. I was told politely, as if I needed the facts of life explained to me, that these posts have been created to allow for promotional opportunities within the college and that effectively anybody from outside who is applying for one of these publicly, advertised posts, supported by public funds, is wasting his time. We are all in favour of job creation and in favour of creating promotional opportunities within our institutions of higher education but for an advertisement like that to go in on behalf of University College, Dublin, at a time when money for jobs is scarce and when the universities are short of money is to invite a public reaction that would be at best cynical and at worst totally hostile. If the Minister can give me, in the context of his reply to this Estimate, a satisfactory indication that he is aware of the situation and of what he intends to do about it I will be happy to take my question off the Order Paper this afternoon. I feel that an Estimate is a much more appropriate occasion for discussion of an issue such as this and I feel perfectly entitled to raise it. Everybody in power is accused at one time or another of feathering his own nest. If the universities want the degree of public esteem to which they feel they are entitled they could go about it in better ways than this.

The second point I want to raise is in relation to the fifth grant-in-aid to Maynooth College, the general grant. Within the last week or ten days there has been an advertisement in the papers from the authorities of Saint Patrick's College, Maynooth, for two posts which will be funded from this secular education grant of £155,100. These two posts were formerly occupied by members of the staff who were dismissed from their positions by the college authorities for various purported forms of misbehaviour including the failure to wear clerical dress while in the precincts of the college. We are being asked to supply £155,100 for a secular education grant to pay for the people who may or may not fill these posts again in the future. We are being asked to pay a secular education grant to pay the salaries of people who may be dismissed, if they are priests, for not wearing clerical dress when in the precincts of Maynooth College — some secular education. When I raised this with the Minister at Question Time a couple of months ago — at the time when the dismissals became final after various court actions — he went so far as to say that he thought himself that the concept of academic freedom in so far as it meant anything at all might be one of the issues which could legitimately be considered in relation to these dismissals. We must ask the Minister now for how long is he prepared to give money, how long is he prepared to come here and ask us to give money to an institution which is permitted to behave in this way? How long will we have to wait until Maynooth College is put on a proper footing as a full university or a university college in its own right with the present freedom of the managers of that college to behave in a way so discriminatory and so blatantly opposed to basic human rights, how long before such will be curtailed by statute?

Apart from those two remarks which I believe are mildly expressed in relation to the issues concerned. I would, in general terms, express a welcome for the Estimate and look forward to the money being effectively and efficiently used for the purpose of higher education in Ireland.

Minister for Education (Mr. Wilson)

: Is mian liom ar dtús mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na Teachtaí as an méod atá ráite acu i dtaobh an ard oideachais agus gur fháiltigh siad roimh an Meastachán Fóirlíontach.

Deputy Collins is worried as to whether we will be funding all the educational requirements at third level in 1980. I want to assure the Deputy and through him, the House that the Government are committed to meet all educational requirements, that they will be adequately met and funded as is the tradition of this Government and party.

I should like to call the attention of the House to the fact that, with this Supplementary Estimate, the extra funds made available by the Government for higher education amount to £7,253,000. That is a considerable sum of money in any man's language.

Deputy Horgan referred to what he sees as the internal problem in University College, Dublin. I did not mean to curb discussion on this when I said that he has a Question on today's Order Paper and I intend to answer that question at that time. I should just like to know if Deputy Horgan is opposing this Supplementary Estimate on the grounds that University College, Dublin, is misusing the funds. If he thinks University College, Dublin, or for that matter, Maynooth College, is misusing the funds, then there is an obligation on him to oppose the allocation of the money.

Mr. Horgan

: I told the Minister I was not. I was within my rights in raising points of detail.

Mr. Wilson

: I am very pleased. I am in agreement with that. But if this is a serious allegation that public funds voted here are not being properly spent in either University College Dublin, or Saint Patrick's College, Maynooth, then there is an obligation on the Deputy to prove it and to oppose the expenditure of such money. But I gather from him that he does not intend to oppose it. The institutions concerned, higher education generally, this House and myself are grateful to him for it.

I just want to reiterate what I have said already, that the Government are fully aware of the high cost of higher education, that the Government are also dedicated to getting full value for the money expended from public funds and that our commitment is now, as always, to funding these institutions in such a way that the students, who are our future experts, will be provided with proper training and education. Thus the country, in throwing out its sprats, will catch many whales in the future.

Vote put and agreed to.