asked the Minister for Education the staff-pupil ratio proposed for the new detention centre at Lusk, County Dublin; and the estimated annual per capita cost for the maintenance of each boy.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Lusk (Dublin) Detention Centre.
21.
The full-time staff in this school will comprise teachers, child-care workers, psychologists, domestic staff, administrative staff and so on. A number of other services will be provided on a part-time basis. Appropriate staffing complements for the various disciplines will be drawn up in due course in consultation with the board of management. Pending the completion of this exercise, it is not possible to state what the overall staff-pupil ratio or the annual per capita cost will be.
At this advanced stage in the planning of this special school is the Minister serious in saying that the Department do not know what the staffing requirements will be in order to operate the school satisfactorily?
I am saying that pending the completion of all the exercises necessary, it is not possible to say precisely what will be the student-teacher ratio. The Deputy can be assured that the staffing arrangements will be adequate to provide for the educational, psychological and medical needs of the students.
That would be fine were it not for the situation of the Minister not knowing what is adequate. Is he telling the House that the forward planning unit in the Department do not know what the staffing requirements will be in order to cater for the educational, physical, psychological and spiritual needs of the students in this centre that is being designed to cater for 30 boys?
I have told the Deputy already that he may rest assured — and here I should hope to have his co-operation in the matter of getting on with the business of providing this school — that when the school is provided, the student-teacher ratio and all the other services involved will be in accordance with the high standards that obtain in any of the special schools for which I have responsibility.
I am not looking for assurances. I am seeking facts. The question is specific. The school is at an advanced stage of planning. Presumably it would be in the course of construction if the Department had been able to overcome the difficulties in relation to drainage.
I wish the Deputy would co-operate.
Is the Minister blaming the Deputy for the difficulty?
The Minister should remember which side of the House he is on. It is for him to sort the matter out. He should act as Minister and tell the House in respect of this school, which should be in the course of construction having regard to the Minister's programme, what the student-teacher ratio will be and how many welfare officers and other back-up staff will be necessary to cater for the needs of the 30 boys who will be accommodated at the school.
The staffing arrangements will be more than adequate to cater for the needs of the boys.
Will there be overstaffing, then?
What is the ratio of staff to boys in Loughan House?
That is a question for the Minister for Justice.
Has the Minister any idea of what will be the per capita cost in respect of this new school?
I have, but that information was not sought in the question.
We cannot have this sort of across-the-House conversation.
Would the Minister not agree that if he is in a position to estimate the capital cost in respect of the school at £2.3 million, he should be able also to estimate the annual per capita cost of the operation of the school?
So should the Deputy.
The Minister should realise which side of the House he is on.
22.
asked the Minister for Education whether the new detention centre at Lusk, County Dublin is an actual replacement for Loughan House, County Cavan; and whether Loughan House is scheduled to revert to an open adult centre as was originally intended.
Because of the urgency of the situation, it was necessary to use Loughan House as a temporary school pending the design and erection of the new purpose-built school at Lusk. The future use of Loughan House will be a matter for decision by the Minister for Justice.
Might I point out that the question asks the Minister whether the new school envisaged at Lusk is to be a replacement for Loughan House? The Minister did not answer that question.
With the permission of the Chair and for the benefit of the Deputy, I shall read the reply again. It is as follows:
Because of the urgency of the situation, it was necessary to use Loughan House as a temporary school pending the design and the erection of the new purpose-built school at Lusk. The future use of Loughan House will be a matter for decision by the Minister for Justice.
The Minister should call a spade a spade. What he is saying is that the new school is to be a replacement for Loughan House. Will that mean that the new school at Lusk will come under the direct control of the Department of Education rather than of the Department of Justice?
If the new school at Lusk had been proceeded with and had been provided, it would have been possible that the services being provided now at Loughan House would not have been required. One would assume that, because of that, when the new school becomes available — so far as I am concerned that cannot be at too early a date and here I am asking for the co-operation of all the agencies concerned — the need for using Loughan House as a school will have disappeared.
The Minister did not answer my question. If Loughan House is to be closed and replaced by this envisaged school will that mean that the people at present in Loughan House will come under the direct control of the Department of Education rather than as at present under the control of the Department of Justice?
I hope that many of the students who are in Loughan House will have availed of the services in Loughan House and will be there when Lusk is opened. Lusk is to cater for the number of students who will be in need of those services annually.