asked the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry when the most recent survey of herring stocks in the Celtic Sea was carried out; if he will give details of the survey including its extent; and the estimated amount of herring in the area at present.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Herring Stocks.
6.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Herring larval surveys are conducted by my Department in the area up to 25 miles offshore between Rosslare and Baltimore from October to February each year. Eight such surveys were conducted in the period October 1980 to February 1981 and a further series of ten such surveys has just commenced and will run until the end of February 1982. In addition to these larval surveys, a continuing sampling programme on adult fish is carried out throughout the year.
The stock size at 1 April 1981 was estimated at 13,000 tonnes on the basis of the information then available.
Would the Minister agree that the extent of the survey is extremely limited, compared with the total area of the Celtic Sea? Am I right in thinking that the Minister said that the survey was confined to a stretch of water 25 miles off the coast? Surely that is a very tiny fraction of the Celtic Sea, which could hardly indicate the true nature or extent of the stocks of herring in the Celtic Sea?
(Cavan-Monaghan): What I said was that surveys are conducted by my Department in the area up to 25 miles offshore between Rosslare and Baltimore from October to February of each year.
Would the Minister agree that because of the limited nature of the survey to which he has referred in his answers the stocks could be considerably greater than the figure of 13,000 tonnes? As a result there might be good reason for an increased fishing effort in the area by Irish fishermen.
(Cavan-Monaghan): My advice is that the surveys carried out are adequate to assess the fishing stock in the Celtic Sea. As the Deputy probably knows, assessment is a matter, in the long run, not for my Department but for the EEC Commission. They, in fact, decide on quotas and whether a fishery should remain open or closed.
If the Minister has not funds available, would he ask the EEC for sufficient funds to carry out a comprehensive survey of the herring stock in the EEC? This is of great concern to Irish fishermen.
(Cavan-Monaghan): As I told the Deputy, my information is that the surveys carried out are adequate. I note the Deputy's views on the matter and will pass these on to my experts.
Was it as a result of this survey that a decision was arrived at to allow boats under 40 ft. to fish in this area? My information is that if a more recent survey was carried out the Minister might as a result allow boats up to 65 ft. to fish in this area. I am sure the Minister is aware of the difficulties these boats are experiencing. Will the Minister consider carrying out an up-to-date survey to give these boats an opportunity to fish in this area?
(Cavan-Monaghan): It might be well if I gave a short history of the Celtic Sea fishery which collapsed in 1976-77 when only 7,000 tons was recorded as against a catch of 30,000 tons in other years. Fishery scientists, acting through ICES, advised that the fishery should be closed until there was a stock size of 40,000 tons. The fishery was closed in 1977 for herring and remained closed because the desired level had not been reached. I should like to tell the Deputy that conservation matters such as the closure of the Celtic Sea are matters for the EEC Council of Ministers and it is not possible for Ireland to act in isolation. This year, following considerable pressure by Ireland, it was decided by the EEC to open the fishery on a limited basis with a quota of 1,000 tons confined to Irish boats not exceeding 50 ft., not 40 ft., as is sometimes thought. The fishery is being fished on that basis at present. The only option was to accept the quota of 1,000 tons or allow the fishery remain closed. I do not think it could be reasonably argued that it would be in the interests of the Irish fishing industry, or Irish fishermen, to leave it closed. The matter will, of course, be reviewed again next year.
Is the Minister aware that the IFO, who are representative of the larger trawler men, dispute the figure of 13,000 tonnes? They contend that the figure is considerably larger.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I know the IFO are not satisfied with the present situation but as Minister for Fisheries I have to be guided by the independent advice given to the EEC by experts. Whether I like it or not I must accept the decision of the EEC Council of Ministers.
Does the Minister still get the co-operation of the fishermen fishing herring in the Celtic Sea who would supply samples of their herring catch to enable a more accurate assessment of the herring stock to be made? Does the Minister agree that the figure of 13,000 tonnes of herring stock is very much a guesstimate and that we need more accurate information?
(Cavan-Monaghan): The sampling I told the Deputy about is in many cases carried out in co-operation with the fishermen when the catches come in. Of course one cannot be deadly accurate on a figure of 13,000 tonnes but, as the Deputy is aware from his experience, these things are decided on the cumulative expert advice given to the EEC by ICES, the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea.
Who are the experts the Minister referred to in his reply?
(Cavan-Monaghan): First of all I am referring to the experts who advise and report to ICES. They are representatives of all EEC countries. There are experts in my Department, few in number, and I do not think it is usual or proper to give names of permanent civil servants.