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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 Mar 1983

Vol. 341 No. 5

European Council Meeting: Statement by Taoiseach .

: With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to make a statement on the meeting of the European Council which I attended, with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in Brussels on 21 and 22 March. I have had the Presidency's Conclusions on the Proceedings of the meeting laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

The principal Irish concerns in Brussels related to the currency re-alignments within the European Monetary System; ensuring that as far as possible the agricultural price fixing is not too closely caught up with the larger questions of the enlargement of the Community and the "Mediterranean package"; the advancement of our position on the Community proposals for new revenues now that the "own resources" system as at present constituted is nearing exhaustion; the co-ordination of the Community approach to the Williamsburg meeting in May of the Heads of State or of Government of the industrialised countries; the prevention of a deterioration in EEC/US relations particularly where agricultural trade is concerned; the advancement of the work begun at the Copenhagen Council on the internal market, as an aid to internal trade and greater Community cohesion generally; a number of items on the political co-operation area to which I shall refer later.

In all this our overriding concern was the maintenance and development of measures to aid economic recovery and, therefore, employment, particularly among the young who have been so greviously affected by the current recession.

The Brussels meeting immediately followed the meeting of the Finance Ministers of the Community which ended last Monday with agreement on the realignment of exchange rates in the European Monetary System. As the Minister for Finance made a statement to the House last Tuesday on this subject, I do not propose to comment on the outcome in any detail. I wish simply to express the satisfaction of the Government, first, that in the face of considerable difficulties the Ministers were able, once again, to reach an agreement that maintains the EMS as a zone of monetary stability in a world where there is a pressing need for greater stability in exchange relationships as an aid to increasing world trade and therefore economic growth.

Secondly, I want to reiterate in the House that for Ireland and the Irish pound the outcome was precisely what was sought by the Government. Our objective had been, as the Minister has indicated, to obtain a correction of the unwarranted and unsought appreciation of the exchange rate of the pound, particularly against sterling. We sought to reestablish as far as possible the relationship with sterling in particular that had existed on average last year before the rise that took place and thus to remove a barrier to maintaining or increasing employment which would have existed if the exchange rate for the pound had been held at a level not justified by the economic facts.

It may take some time for the degree of adjustment to emerge clearly, and naturally a lot will depend on the autonomous movements in sterling. However, the initial evidence from the markets suggests that our objective has been broadly achieved. I believe that the Minister for Finance deserves great credit for the competent manner in which he discharged his responsibility on the country's behalf.

We also discussed the proposed enlargement of the Community, with conclusions which Deputies will be able to study in the texts laid before the House. The Agriculture Council had not been able, as they had been asked to do at Copenhagen, to reach agreement on the necessary adaptation of the acquis communautaire in regard to olive oil and Mediterranean fruits and vegetables.

The European Council considered the issues, gave certain guidelines and asked the Agriculture Ministers to settle the issues as quickly as possible. A speedy solution is in Irish interests in order to ensure that decisions on agricultural prices are not delayed through links with the outstanding questions on Mediterranean products.

Apart from this aspect, Irish interests in these matters are general rather than specific. We are committed to the accession of Spain and Portugal and are prepared to play our part in reaching agreement on the matters before the Agriculture Council. We adhere, however, to our view that the interests of both the present member states and the applicants require that enlargement take place on the basis of necessary decisions in such areas as Community resources and improvements in decision-making procedures.

I now come to the European Council's discussion of the future financing of the Community and of the associated problem of the balance of benefits among member states. Deputies will be aware that the Commission published, not too long ago, a Green Paper on future financing. The House will also know that for some years past the British Government has put forward the view that the share of Community own resources collected in the UK greatly exceeds the budget receipts which accrue in the UK. At Brussels, the British Prime Minister stressed the importance, from the standpoint of the British Government, of having arrangements agreed as early as possible on the way in which the budgetary imbalance on which they focus would be corrected for the future. Together with a number of other Heads of State or Government, I considered that primary importance attached to ensuring that the Community's overall development was not prejudiced by the inadequacy of its financial resources.

I said that it was increasingly clear that we are near the limit of existing own resources. The 1 per cent VAT ceiling could be reached in 1984: the Commission has very little confidence that it will not be breached at the latest in 1985. This is quite apart from the anticipated increased demands arising from enlargement or any further adjustments in favour of the UK. I urged that the Commission submit firm proposals on future financing as soon as possible.

The Commission's recent Green Paper on future financing placed emphasis on the continuing role of VAT as the centre of the Community's financing system. I welcomed this and said that I trusted this emphasis would be reflected in a clear proposal by the Commisison for a raising of the 1 per cent VAT ceiling which is now very urgent. I also asked that further and detailed consideration be given to the introduction of greater progressivity into the system, as well as a form of financial equalisation — both of them options aired in the Green Paper. Deputies are probably aware that a further option canvassed in that paper was a tax to be paid by national Exchequers but based on agricultural indicators. I made it clear when I met President Thorn in Dublin, and again at the meeting in Brussels, that this proposal is unacceptable to this Government.

I should make it clear to the House that Ireland, together with Denmark and Greece, entered a reserve regarding the reference to budgetary imbalances in the Statement by the Presidency after the meeting. This term reflects, in our view, an incorrect and narrow view of the balance of advantages and disadvantages among member states, many of which are not reflected at all in the Community budget. In addition, this wording could suggest that the problem was simply one of adjustments within the existing budgetary framework rather than, as we contend, one of an imminent inadequacy of own resources.

As I indicated earlier, the economic situation and action to improve it were high among my priorities going to the meeting. This, of course, reflected the magnitude of the economic difficulties and challenges facing us in Ireland and the reality that while we can do a great deal to help ourselves we are, as an extremely open economy, greatly affected by developments in the economies of the Community and indeed of the world at large.

In the Community, growth in 1982 was only 0.2 per cent in volume terms, with the Federal Republic of Germany recording a decline of 1 per cent. This experience was common to all the industrialised countries, their combined output falling last year for the first time since 1975. Much of the deterioration was due to the combined impact of: a worsening in the recession in the US, where real GDP declined in 1982; and an actual contraction, in world trade, which in the three years up to 1979 had expanded at an average annual rate of 6.9 per cent.

The number out of work in the Community continued to climb last year, to reach 9.6 per cent of the labour force on average, a level 75 per cent higher than in 1979.

There are some positive aspects. Inflation has eased in all member states, and most notably in the US and Japan, and for the Community as a whole progress in bringing the current account of the balance of payments back into equilibrium has been faster than expected.

As assessed by the Commission, before the meeting the outlook for 1983, while subject to some major uncertainties, was somewhat better than the 1982 outturn in a number of respects, but unemployment seemed set for a further rise to a total of more than 12 million or over 10 per cent of the labour force.

Recent indicators point to some incipient recovery in a number of member states and in the US where the economy has shown a more favourable trend since the beginning of this year. There has been a downward movement in interest rates internationally and we have had the recent OPEC decision to reduce oil prices, confirming a trend that has been evident for some time.

This does not, however, mean that an end to the recession is assured. We have had a number of false dawns in recent years. The favourable developments still need to be confirmed as to their scale and duration. There are problems and uncertainties in the international financial situation.

Nevertheless, there is a chance of a positive turnaround. My concern, leading up to the Brussels meeting, was that the Community should focus on the action required to realise this possibility of recovery and to make it durable and cumulative. What I wanted — and what I urged upon my fellow Heads of State or Government — was that arrangements be made for careful preparation of a Community position for the Williamsburg meeting of seven major industrialised countries and other forthcoming meetings at international level.

Different countries have now become so interdependent economically that no one country can promote or sustain economic growth on its own. Even the European Community, with its large population and enormous resources is, in today's conditions, insufficiently powerful to achieve autonomous growth — assuming that all its member states could be got to act in concert. That is why the Williamsburg Summit, involving also the United States, Canada and Japan as well as the four leading states of the Community is of such importance. There could be co-ordination there on a world scale which would aid and secure the persistence of the incipient recovery. This, if it happened, could start to roll back the tide of unemployment which is becoming such a serious threat to western democracies as a whole.

When I met Mr. Gaston Thorn, President of the Commission, here in Dublin towards the end of last month, I pressed that the Commission should give a bold lead along the lines I have mentioned. I am, therefore, happy to acknowledge that the paper which the Commission submitted to the European Council was one of the most forthright and positive documents on economic policy to emerge from the Commission for a long time. It proposed priorities and guidelines relating to the security of the international financial system, the restoration of international monetary stability, the handling of monetary policies, including interest rates, the management of public finances and lastly, the handling of developments in regard to the price of oil.

My views on the need to prepare a Community position for Williamsburg — for which the Commission paper will now provide a first-class point of reference — were, if not universally, very widely shared. This emerged in a full and lively discussion of this matter on Monday afternoon and is, I am glad to say, fully reflected in the very satisfactory section of this subject in the Presidency's conclusions.

The section of the Presidency's conclusions is followed by a section on Community-US relations. This relates to another concern of mine before and at the Brussels meeting — the threat posed to important Irish and Community interests by strains in Community-US relations in regard to trade in agricultural products. In the Tokyo round of agreements within the GATT, the US accepted that the system of export refunds operated as part of the Common Agricultural Policy was compatible with GATT rules so long as the Community did not take an undue share of world markets. There is, of course, in the US a strong and vocal farm lobby which has been pressing for a more aggressive US policy on trade in agricultural products.

Deputies will be aware of the feelings aroused recently when the US concluded a contract for a subsidised sale of one million tonnes of wheat flour to Egypt, undercutting the Community in a market traditionally supplied from Europe, primarily from France. This happened during a pause in discussions between the two sides which had been designed to resolve the problems and was in breach of an understanding for a "truce" reached in those talks. The US also appeared to be preparing to enter into further subsidised deals and it was reported that negotiations were in train for the sale of some 20,000 tonnes of butter, again at very low prices, to Egypt, which could have major repercussions on international market prices and outlets to the detriment of Irish and Community exports of dairy products. This was naturally a matter of considerable concern to the Government, especially as it would follow the losses, running into tens of millions of pounds, that we already stand to suffer as a result of an agreement that provides, inter alia, for the subsidised sale by the US of skimmed milk powder to Mexico, where Ireland had built up a large market for this product, although in this case the US was also a traditional supplier.

There have in recent weeks been intensive contacts at high level, including an exchange of correspondence between the Presidents of the Council and of the Commission and Secretary of State Schultz and a visit to Washington last week by Vice-President Haferkamp and Commissioner Dalsager, designed to prevent the outbreak of a trade war in the agricultural products area. Irish concerns in the matter were expressed to Mr. Schultz by the Minister for Foreign Affairs at their meeting last week. The situation remains delicately balanced, however, especially in the light of the intended visits by the United States Secretary for Agriculture, Mr. Block, over the next few days to Tunisia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. US export packages are reported to be ready for signature in all four countries and some might involve dairy sales.

Thus we are faced with dangers of price undercutting in important markets which could have dramatic effects on Community finances. I am, however, satisfied, as a result of the discussions in Brussels, that there is an appreciation of the seriousness of the situation and an intention on the Community's part to engage in constructive discussion which could lead to a modus vivendi if there is a reasonable response from the Americans.

We must hope that there will be an appreciation at the highest level in Washington of the possibly far-reaching consequences of repeating in 1983 the disputes that strained US-European relations last year and that no action will be taken in coming days that would prejudice the further discussions envisaged.

The European Council held in Copenhagen on 3-4 December 1982 drew up a programme of work to be undertaken in the economic and social field and in regard to enlargement. In Brussels we reviewed progress in these areas and further work to be undertaken on the basis of a report by the Commission. The work under way in the economic and social field is broadly in what I might perhaps call the micro-economic category as distinct from macro-economic policy measures to stimulate economic recovery. The programme includes action on opening up the Community's internal market, on the external trade policy of the Community, on research, energy policy, innovation and industrial policy, expansion of the Ortoli borrowing facility and supplementary measures to relieve unemployment, especially among young people.

Reasonably satisfactory progress had been made since Copenhagen in a number of these areas as a result of efforts made by the Presidency, but work is still under way in most of the individual areas and as it is therefore somewhat premature to assess the outcome I do not propose to review this programme further today. I must say, however, that it was disappointing that we were not in a position to tackle the unemployment problem, particularly among the young or to take special measures to deal with it in a more meaningful way.

The Heads of State and Government issued an important statement in the situation in the Middle East. In relation to the Arab-Israeli conflict, we identified the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Lebanon and a resumption of negotiations for a comprehensive settlement in the Middle East as the two most urgent objectives. We expressed support for the efforts of the United States to achieve these aims and for the peacekeeping role of UNIFIL and the multinational force in Lebanon. We reiterated the principles of our approach to peace negotiations, as established in the Venice declaration and other statements: a lasting peace can be built only on the right to a secure existence for all states in the region, including Israel, and justice for all the peoples, including the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination with all that this implies. These rights must be mutually recognised by the parties themselves. Negotiations will have to embrace all the parties concerned including the Palestinian people; and the PLO will have to be associated with them.

We recognised that President Reagan's initiative of 1 September last indicated a way to peace, that the Arab summit meeting at Fez demonstrated a readiness for it and that the recent meeting of the Palestine National Council can and should contribute to the peace process. We welcomed the discussions between Jordan and the PLO and urged the Palestinian people and the PLO to seize the present opportunity by declaring themselves in favour of peace negotiations. Above all, we affirmed that the time has come for Israel to show its readiness for genuine negotiations on the basis of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, in the first place by halting the settlement process in the occupied territories.

This statement was very much directed at the present position. It reflected the assessment of the Ten that an opportunity for a peaceful settlement now exists but may not be there for much longer. We aimed to encourage all the parties to avail of this chance while it is there.

We also expressed our growing concern at the continued conflict between Iran and Iraq and called for a ceasefire and the withdrawal of forces to internationally recognised frontiers.

Finally, we received a report from Mr. Genscher on progress in finalising the proposed Solemn Declaration on European Union on which work has been proceeding for the last 18 months or so, following the initiative taken by Mr. Genscher and the Italian Foreign Minister, Mr. Colombo. The text has evolved very considerably in the interval. Most points of disagreement have now been resolved but a few remain and there is to be contact with the European Parliament on some of these and on the draft Declaration generally. It is possible that final decisions on the matter will be taken before the end of the German Presidency.

On the proposal of the British Prime Minister, there was a general informal agreement that the Community should make a special effort to relieve the famine that is affecting or threatening great numbers of people in Ethiopia and Somalia.

On the morning of 22 March, before the resumption of the European Council meeting, I had informal talks with Mrs. Thatcher. These covered a number of matters of mutual concern and common interest. In a brief press statement issued after the meeting, it was indicated that we expect to meet again at the next meeting of the European Council. This is to take place in Stuttgart on 6/7 June next.

This was a cordial and constructive meeting and I am satisfied that it represented a worth while start in the process of restoring relations between the two countries to the condition they were in when I was previously in office. We are now moving in the right direction.

I would sum up the Brussels Council as somewhat uneven in quality, much of its work being effectively in preparation for the June Stuttgart Council. I want nevertheless to pay a tribute to the way in which our deliberations in Brussels were led and steered by Chancellor Kohl. This gives me confidence as regards the follow-up areas, such as preparation of a Community position for Williamsburg and US/ Community trade relations, where the European Council discussions were useful and led to satisfactory conclusions.

The House may be assured that for their part, the Government will ensure that Ireland makes its own constructive and distinctive contribution to this follow-up and that we will continue to promote and to safeguard Irish interests within the framework of a broad and forward-looking concept of Community development.

: The European Council this week appears to have been a singularly unproductive one. The whole issue of youth unemployment, and what measures could be taken at a European level to tackle the problem, were deflected without any decisions being taken to the Social Affairs Committee.

In his statement the Taoiseach said, and I quote:

I must say, however, that it was disappointing that we were not in a position to tackle the unemployment problem particularly among the young, or to take special measures to deal with it in a more meaningful way.

In that sentence the Taoiseach writes off the whole European Council as being largely a waste of time.

On the question of concerted action to stimulate economic recovery nothing was really decided, other than to press the United States to play a more active role at the economic summit in Williamsburg next May.

There again, I find the Taoiseach's emphasis on the Williamsburg Conference very disappointing. It seems to amount to the European Community throwing in the towel and hoping that someone else will achieve its economic salvation. The Taoiseach also said:

Different countries have now become so interdependent economically that no one country can promote or sustain economic growth, on its own. Even the European Community, with its large population and enormous resources is, in today's conditions, insufficiently powerful to achieve autonomous growth — assuming that all its member states could be got to act in concert.

Then he proceeds to hand over responsibility to the Williamsburg Summit at which we will not be represented. If the Taoiseach made an attempt to get the larger countries to stimulate their economies, as he promised he would, he failed totally.

Unemployment in the European Community is considerably higher than in the rest of the Western World. This constitutes an indictment of the Community's lack of will to take action and the ineffectiveness of its decision-making procedures. The Taoiseach acknowledges in his statement that unemployment is going to continue rising in 1983 in the Community. It will rise to 12,000,000 or 10 per cent of the total working population. Many of the larger countries of the Community want to circumscribe its role and to deprive it of the funds it requires to take effective action.

The whole meeting was of course overshadowed by the weekend drama over the EMS realignment. Before coming to Ireland's role in that realignment, I would like to say that the overall agreement, particularly between France and Germany, while satisfactory to the extent that it allowed the EMS to remain operational, really only papered over fairly fundamental disagreements over economic policy. The French demanded and obtained a general realignment of all the member currencies, so that the brunt of the adjustment was borne by the countries revaluing, with French devaluation largely hidden amongst the movement of other currencies including our own.

The devaluation of the Irish pound is unfortunately probably the most significant fiscal decision taken by this Government since coming into office. It is quite clear to us that it was a forced devaluation. The policy of the Central Bank and the Department of Finance has been to resist devaluation. It was our decision too. Members of the Government have said that a devaluation was "unnecessary" and that it would set off "a wave of devaluation". It is entirely unconvincing to claim that this was planned two months ago, or that we had been actively seeking a devaluation. The fact is that the Minister for Finance went along to the meeting in Brussels without an adequate response to demands from the French and maybe others for a devaluation of our currency.

It is difficult to see how the Government could have actively desired a devaluation, for it directly contradicts the whole basis of their budgetary strategy, which is to reduce the aggregate level of borrowing. The devaluation will add in our estimation, and it is based on tables provided by the Central Bank, up to £400 million to our cumulative foreign debt, and this will wipe out the reductions in borrowing that the Government had hoped to effect by its budget. The figure of £250 million quoted by the Minister for Finance appears to relate only to EMS currencies and to ignore the devaluation that has also taken place against the dollar, the yen, sterling and the Swiss franc. In terms of reducing the overall burden of foreign debt, the devaluation has effectively cancelled out the work of the budget. It is possible to speculate that if the indirect taxes in the budget had not been imposed, giving us the possibility of a rate of inflation of at or under 10 per cent, a devaluation might have been unnecessary and in that case not only would our foreign debt have been lighter, but there would have been more money to spend in the economy. We devalued by 3½ per cent, about the same amount as the budget put up our cost of living.

The Government have indulged in an extraordinary series of pretences, first of all that this devaluation, not only against the EMS central rate but against all other currencies, was not really properly speaking a devaluation at all, that a measure which will clearly add to the inflation is not really inflationary, that exports will be immediately cheaper and more competitive, but that our imports will be no dearer at least for some months. Let us recognise this for what it is — special pleading to cover the Government's embarrassment and humiliation at being the first ever Irish Government to devalue our currency.

Key elements of the Government's alleged economic strategy have been defeated by this move. The cumulative foreign debt will increase at an alarming rate in spite of and perhaps because of the budget this year. The Taoiseach repeatedly claimed last year that he could reduce the rate of inflation faster than Fianna Fáil. Let me quote from the Fine Gael election document Priorities November 1982: “Fine Gael aims to secure a more rapid fall in inflation than that projected by Fianna Fáil”. In The Way Forward we envisaged that the rate of inflation would be of the order of 10-13 per cent. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance now agree that the rate of inflation will be at least 12 per cent. So let them honestly and straightforwardly admit that they have failed, that they pretended to the electorate that they could achieve something more than Fianna Fáil, which they could not achieve.

Let me further say that I do not believe the Taoiseach's figure for inflation of 12 per cent. Having devalued by 5½ per cent against the US dollar, and the Minister for Industry and Energy Deputy Bruton has confirmed this, we are going to derive very little benefit from the fall in world oil prices, so that one of the factors that would have helped to bring down inflation will not in fact operate.

The principal defence put forward for the devaluation of the Irish pound in the EMS is that it will restore some of our competitiveness with Britain. This claim is frankly spurious and is in the process of being disproved in the markets. Both the Central Bank and other banks are already expressing concern that the devaluation has not had the desired effect. The Taoiseach claimed when he was going out to Europe that it would go a long way to restoring the position vis-á vis sterling that obtained in 1981 and 1982. He obviously had no clear picture of what the situation then was, or else was badly briefed. The average rate against sterling was 80p in 1981 and 81¼p in 1982; 89p goes nowhere near this.

Our lunch time rate for dealing today was 89.6p. In fact this Government will be left with the worst of all possible worlds. They will have to carry the detrimental effects of devaluation against the European currencies, particularly the Deutschemark, and at the same time will not gain anything in regard to our comparative rate with sterling.

I wonder if the Taoiseach is aware that the chief executive of CTT, for instance, is reported in The Irish Times of 13 January as being opposed to devaluation. He says that the massive devaluation of the IR£ against sterling after Irish entry to the EMS had produced exactly the opposite effect to what the opponents of devaluation were now claiming. He said that Britain had been a much slower growing market for Irish exports than the EEC and conversely British exports to Ireland had increased at a faster rate than those from the EEC. I am afraid that the excuses for devaluation simply do not hold up to critical examination.

Most disturbing of all is that Mr. Joe Durkin of the ESRI argued in December that devatuation did not make sense when the country's balance of payments was improving, and that it would make speculation against the Irish economy profitable every time a rumour was put about that a realignment was likely. What would worry me is that our currency has now entered the endangered species list. It has joined the vulnerable currency league as a result of the action of this Government.

The whole episode is not likely to improve our standard in Europe. I am afraid that devaluation has been a fiasco. It was pathetically mismanaged. The Taoiseach's performance on the radio last Sunday, when he disclosed the Government's hand in advance in that interview only to be interrupted by the interviewer and told that the meeting in Brussels had terminated without a decision, will go down in history as the greatest gaffe of all time. Even the farmers, the only group likely to benefit — if they do benefit directly — will lose a great deal of that benefit through increased inflation.

Let me now turn to the Taoiseach's meeting with the British Prime Minister. Neither I nor the country at large are very impressed by either the fact that a meeting has taken place or the fact that its content is to remain a closely guarded secret. I must say I could not help but be amused by the Taoiseach's insistence on confidentiality and discretion. If I recall correctly, one of his most insistent criticisms of the talks I had with the British Prime Minister was the secrecy and confidentiality surrounding them. It now appears that he has done a complete U-turn on this as on so many other subjects. The probability is that despite all his protestations and the Dimbleby lecture the Taoiseach would have very little to tell, that is if he was going to tell anything. The short communique emphasises that it was an introductory meeting, and the British Prime Minister clearly ruled out any summit despite the agreement to hold such summits twice a year announced by both himself and the British Prime Minister after their meeting in November 1981. The British Prime Minister also emphasised that no new initiative of any kind was discussed.

I wonder if the Taoiseach availed of the opportunity to express resentment — which I would feel — that the British Government are cynically taking the attitude that nothing is to be done about the North of Ireland, that all the violence and bloodshed will continue there until the next British general election takes place. Does that not prove that Northern Ireland today is what it started out to be, simply a plaything of the British political process? I am afraid I must remind the House about what the present Taoiseach told the electorate in his notorious speech on Northern Ireland during the November election. He said on 18 November at a Dublin South-East constituency meeting, "A complete and radical rethinking of British policy is now needed, and needed quickly, if the situation is to be retrieved from the drift towards chaos. It must be the purpose and prime purpose of the Government elected to office on 14 December next to secure from the British Government a recognition of the need for such a radical revision of its policy while there is yet time to save the situation". How does the Taoiseach square that with his little, short, confidential communique after his meeting with the British Prime Minister? There is nothing in that communique about calling for a complete and radical rethink of British policies now and quickly.

It is quite obvious that the Taoiseach did not make any such demands of the British Prime Minister. On the contrary according to The Guardian of yesterday, 23 March, he explained to the British Prime Minister “the reason for the more nationalist pronouncements recently of the Irish Foreign Minister, Mr. Peter Barry. These essentially focus on the Irish Government's almost desperate concern to prop up the political fortunes of the mainly Catholic SDLP”.

: That is a totally unfounded report.

: I want to put this question clearly to the Taoiseach. Is it correct that he apologised or made excuses to the British Prime Minister for the speech made in Limerick by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Peter Barry?

: It is absolutely false.

: Is it correct that he told the British Prime Minister to disregard the Minister's statement that he wanted to see an eventual fading out of the British involvement in Irish affairs and that she was not to take seriously his statement that he regarded "the long-term British presence in Ireland as an obstacle to the reconciliation of the two Irish traditions"? I want to hear if the briefing given by the British side to the British Press is correct in that respect.

: The subject was never mentioned in the discussions. If the Deputy wants the answer he can have it.

: I would like to say more about the summit but in deference to the protocol of the House I will end my remarks at this stage to allow in Deputy Mac Giolla. I will conclude by saying that, having read this communique by the Taoiseach on the outcome of the summit, I wonder if these European Council meetings are worth while any more. I raised that question in my mind because of some of them that I attended. When they were started up by President Giscard d'Estaing of France the idea was that European heads of government would meet in an informal atmosphere and talk about matters of fundamental importance confidentially. The European Council as it has developed is rather a waste of time and really nothing is achieved there. The purpose of bringing the heads of government together for an informal confidential discussion on important matters could be achieved much more simply than by going to all this elaborate pretence of a European Council attended by the heads of government.

: I agree entirely with the latter remarks of Deputy Haughey. The statement that has been given to us is probably one of the most useless and meaningless statements that ever came to the House. It is full of the usual waffle and gobbledegook that you get from hand-outs from the EEC and various European sources that come in our post regularly. It says nothing whatever. It is obvious that they talked a great deal and decided nothing and the Council meeting had no meaning. Indeed, the Taoiseach's statement says that what they were talking about was the next meeting in Stuttgart in June. I suppose there they will talk about when the other one will be, and of course about Williamsburg which is the big league stuff where you will have the US and Japan. That was really something to talk about. The major decision that affects all of us had already been taken. The Taoiseach in his statement merely said that that had already been decided by the Ministers for Finance. Obviously the heads of state did not even discuss what was happening in the EMS, in the whole international monetary system and in each individual country as a result of the big shake-up that has taken place and whether we should look again at the whole question of the EMS. They merely said that the Ministers for Finance had made that decision and we will just move on now to something else. Yet there is a major upheaval.

There is no indication that they asked Britain to have a further discussion as to whether she would come into the EMS. One would expect that the Taoiseach would at least have raised this matter at the heads of state meeting when we had been forced to devalue our currency. He said, of course, that the outcome was precisely what was sought by the Government. The Government only weeks before precisely did not want any such thing. They did not want to obtain a correction of the unwarranted and unsought appreciation of the exchange rate of the IR£ particularly against sterling. As Deputy Haughey has pointed out a few days later, it has not had any such effect. One would expect that heads of state when they meet would discuss how things are going generally in an overall fashion and the whole strategy of whether the EMS is working, how it effects different countries etc. and that the discussion would have some relevance to the individual countries. Nothing in this statement has any relevance to anybody. In fact, most Deputies in this House could not understand most of it, and quite a lot of it I could not understand myself. Certainly the vast majority of people outside would not know from the Taoiseach's statement what we are talking about. There was only one short reference to unemployment in the statement. There is no indication that the Taoiseach raised the question of flour imports a s a result of which Ranks had to close down, nor did he raise the question of the car assembly industry which will be shutting down next year. It does not appear that he raised any of the issues which affect jobs here.

The EEC has been of great relevance to the farming community. They know all about it because it affects their daily lives, and they have a great interest in it, but it does not have any relevance to the workers. They see it as pushing them down, preventing them from doing something to protect their jobs. they see it as something to oppose. The question of the EEC should be debated here because it has not been debated since we joined. As far as the farmers are concerned the good days are over, as the Minister made clear. The Americans do not want it any longer. They can do what they like, which the statement also made clear, because even when there was a truce they exported flour to Egypt, and now they are going to take a great deal of butter too. There will not be very much gain for the Irish farmers so far as the EEC is concerned and since nobody else gained from our entry into the EEC—certainly not the workers — it is time this House had a full discussion on the EEC and its effects on our economy.

The only part of the Taoiseach's statement which was very clear was his reference to international affairs. That was grand, because heads of state could talk about something outside the EEC, such as the Middle East. The statement on the Middle East is outstanding and for that I commend the heads of state but there is no indication that they raised the major international question in Europe at the moment, the question about which Europeans are marching in their thousands, the question which is splitting countries down the middle and dividing parties, that is, the question of the United States military policy in Europe and their intention to locate Cruise and Pershing missiles in Europe to protect America. A nuclear war could occur and America would survive. That issue does not seem to have been discussed.

The meeting with Mrs. Thatcher was obviously a brief hello, a handshake and a smile. They did not hit each other and that is all that happened. If that is so, why bother to mention it? If something did happen why not let us know? We should know what was said because it could be of value, but from what the Taoiseach told us today, nothing happened.

As Deputy Haughey said these Council meetings of heads of state obviously have no purpose except to show cordiality, that we get on well together, that we are lucky we have Ministers for Finance to look after the EMS, Ministers for Agriculture looking after farming and so on, and the heads of state can have tea — or something stronger — and a chat and look forward to meetings in different cities. That is what the Taoiseach's statement was all about.

: I thank the Taoiseach and the other Deputies for cooperating and facilitating the Cork Deputies.

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