asked the Minister for Finance what action he proposes to take to protect all of the people at present entering Phoenix Park from the dangers of up to 100 horses including mares with foal that entered over the week-end and are a menace to all who use the park.
Private Notice Questions. - Horses in Phoenix Park (Dublin).
Trespassing horses are a continuing problem in the Phoenix Park. As Deputies are aware this problem is common in parks and public areas throughout the country. It is the policy of the Commissioners of Public Works to have trespassing animals removed from the park. Since 15 October 1980 this has been done on 31 occasions. The commissioners will continue to implement this policy. The dismantling of two gates for the purpose of widening the entrance to permit the entry of plant and machinery in connection with the construction of a section of the greater Dublin sewerage scheme has had no material effect on the number of horses trespassing in the park.
As the Minister of State seems to accept that it is in order to have these horses in the park, could he tell me what redress the parents of a child who has been injured, or indeed a spouse, will have if there is a serious injury or death arising from these straying horses?
I cannot agree with the Deputy that I have accepted it is normal for these horses to be in the park but it has been a fact of life——
And death. People have been killed.
Not death. If people have been killed by horses in the Phoenix Park I am not aware of it. I am not accepting that it is normal. What I am saying is that our workers in the park have removed those horses on 31 occasions in the last couple of years and brought them to the pound. They were released from the pound and back in the park within hours.
(Interruptions.)
Order. There must be order.
The cost of removing 37 horses recently was £600.
Will the Minister extend those activities to the race course?
(Interruptions.)
A Cheann Comhairle you will appreciate that the seriousness of this matter was lost in certain bilateral laughter. May I ask the Minister of State to give an assurance that from now on he will contact the people in the park with a view to getting in touch with the persons who own these horses? The Minister of State knows that a mare with a foal is a much more dangerous quadruped. Children have been injured over the weekend and we do not want a serious accident to occur.
It is policy to continue to remove those horses from the park and I will do as the Deputy asks.
Regarding the matter raised by——
May I make my point?
Regarding the matter raised by Deputy Haughey concerning an ordinary notice question put down by him to the Taoiseach, that question was considered in the ordinary way in the General Office and it was brought to me for adjudication with advice on it from my three advisers. I got unanimous advice that the question was not in order. I considered that question in the light of that advice and ruled it out of order. As everybody knows, it is not in order to raise the matter here, but if Deputy Haughey wishes to discuss it he can discuss it with me in my office.
I raised it because I felt there must be some mistake. In all my experience in this House I have never seen a ruling of this nature. I asked a question about a statement made by the Taoiseach. I asked the Taoiseach to elaborate on the contents of that statement and the Chair has ruled it out of order. That was so unprecedented that I had to raise it.
I ruled it out of order in accordance with the advice I got. I am prepared to discuss it in my office with the Deputy in accordance with precedent.
I appreciate the Chair's offer to discuss it and I will probably accept it, but it represents such a fundamental change of practice in this House that it is worthy of being raised here in the open House. I would ask the Chair to explain his ruling on it.
The Chair not alone does not have to explain his ruling——
I know that.
——but it would be contrary to precedent. If the matter has to be raised in a more detailed way, I understand that before the House adjourns the Taoiseach's Estimates will come up and perhaps the Deputy could raise it then. If it is a matter that must be raised in a formal way with the Chair, there are ways in which to raise it.
I give notice that I feel the matter is of such significant and farreaching consequences to this House that I will have to avail of some other procedure to raise it in a formal way.
The Chair and the Deputy will be no worse friends for that.
This raises a major change of policy. It is not in accordance with any precedent I can recall and it is for that reason that I am raising it and not because of the question, which is relatively unimportant. I query the principle behind my not being able to ask the Taoiseach in this House about statements made in public.
The Chair has ruled in accordance with Standing Orders. I am calling Deputy Bertie Ahern.
As this is the last week of the session it is difficult to use the normal way of raising matters. If one puts down a question it would be answered next November or October. I accepted the Chair's decision on my Private Notice Question put down for today but we have talked about people flying out of the country, employment exchanges and horses. I had wished to raise an issue in relation to the deaths of 14 people. This is a time when in the northern counties there are a lot of marches which sometimes cause trouble and I wished to raise an issue which has become very relevant in the last few days.
Does the Deputy wish to raise it on the Adjournment? The Deputy cannot make a speech of it.
I wish to know why horses, employment exchanges and people flying out of the country are more important than the deaths of 14 people?
I got detailed advice on it and on foot of that advice I ruled it out of order. That question could have been raised any time in the last eight or ten years.
I intend to raise on the Adjournment the need for a complaints tribunal against companies abusing certain public utility functions. I refer particularly to Dublin Cable Systems who have acted high-handedly in Dublin——
The Chair will be in touch with the Deputy.
Is this a vested interest?
The Deputy cannot make a speech on it. I have heard enough to enable me to consider it.
(Interruptions.)
I will consider it.
I note that the Chair has also refused my Private Notice Question about the opening of Clondalkin Paper Mills. There are still 350 people unemployed and because a Minister recently made a statement——
Is the Deputy asking permission to raise this on the Adjournment?
——that the Government have no intention of reopening the mill as a State or semi-State body, with the consequential loss of 300 jobs, I would like to raise that matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the necessity for the Tánaiste and Minister for the Environment to intervene in the strike of Dublin County Council water inspectors which is resulting in major pollution of beaches and in general inconvenience to members of the public?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the contents of the reply to Question No. 315 of Thursday, 30 June.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the question of the lack of preparedness of this nation in the event of radio-active fallout or of maritime pollution.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would like the questions in my name to the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism and to the Minister for Justice to be taken as written.
The Deputy can have that done by applying to the General Office.
Will the Chair allow time to discuss the serious rate of high unemployment especially in relation to my constituency? Will the Taoiseach declare East Cork a disaster area?
Does the Deputy wish to raise that on the Adjournment?
(Interruptions.)
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the establishment of a regional technical college in County Wexford.
I will communicate with the Deputy.