Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 8 Nov 1983

Vol. 345 No. 8

Private Members' Business. - Díospóireacht ar an Athló: Údarás na Gaeltachta.

Mr. Molloy

Tá mé buíoch as ucht an seans a thug tú dom an cheist seo a phlé sa Dáil anocht. Ní rabhamar sásta le freagraí an Aire inniú ar Cheist 20. Is fíor nár thug sé aon fhreagra ar bith ar an chuid is mó de na ceisteanna a chuir mé air.

Údarás na Gaeltachta have an outstanding record of success in attracting industrial enterprises to Gaeltacht regions. Since 1981 industrial employment has consistently increased in Gaeltacht areas. From January 1981 to June 1983 full-time employment in industries promoted by Údarás na Gaeltachta has risen from 4,011 to 4,300. One must remember that the authority serves an area with a population of only 80,000. This increase occurred at a time when the rest of the country is suffering massive unemployment. The success of Údarás na Gaeltachta is clearly established in the statistics I have given.

In the mid-seventies some enterprises were grant-aided which were not established on a sound commercial basis and many closures occurred and losses were heavy. However, since the establishment in 1980 of Údarás na Gaeltachta many of the lossmakers run by the previous body, Gaeltarra Éireann, have been closed down and stricter commercial criteria have been applied. Under An tÚdaras there has been a reduction in the losses in their own subsidiary companies from more than £3 million in 1980 to £2 million in 1981 and a small profit was achieved in June 1983. It has been a record of great success and an example to other industrial-promoting bodies.

This new policy which has achieved such great success has been spearheaded by the new chief executive, Frank Flynn, who took over in July 1981. A comment on the work of An tÚdaras was conveyed in the recent Trident Report which was carried out by an independent group of consultants. That report shows that Údarás na Gaeltachta have a positive effect on economic development in the Gaeltacht and they have proved themselves to be a successful development agency by national and international standards.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would direct the attention of the Deputy to the fact that he requested permission to raise the subject matter of Question No. 20. I hope the Deputy will relate his remarks to the question.

Mr. Molloy

I will as far as I can. The new board with democratically elected members, sitting with ministerial appointees under the chairmanship of Mayo County Manager, Mr. O'Malley, had undoubtedly worked very hard and the success achieved brought morale in the organisation to a new high. This new organisation that had been brought into existence against the bitter opposition of some members of Fine Gael began to exert a dynamic influence for good throughout the Gaeltacht regions. However, those in Fine Gael who had opposed the establishment of a separate Gaeltacht authority commenced an insidious campaign to discredit the organisation. One Deputy in particular carried out a mean, vindictive campaign of negative obstruction, aided by an outside individual whose motives were never clear to me. The Official Report gives extensive evidence of the unhelpful, negative attitude adopted by Deputy Michael Begley of south Kerry since the Údarás were established. I have not spoken in the Dáil debates as I was satisfied that our party's spokesperson dealt with the situation satisfactorily on all occasions.

However, I regret that recent events, particularly the meeting of Údarás last Saturday and the speculation in the newspapers today that the Government intend firing members of the board and the chief executive, have left me no option but to draw the attention of Dáil Éireann and the Irish people to the ugly campaign of vindictiveness now being waged openly by this Minister and this Government, egged on by Deputy Begley——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to come to the question.

Mr. Molloy

He is solely responsible for the disgraceful campaign which now seems to have the support of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and all on that side of the House. Surely there are some decent, fairminded people on the Government side who will stand up and call halt?

Two years ago approximately Eamon Delaney, an employee of Údarás na Gaeltachta, asked if he could call to discuss with me an important personal matter that was causing him great concern. Mr. Delaney unfolded a story of intrigue that astonished me. He explained how he had been approached by a former employee of Gaeltarra Éireann who told him he was acting for the Minister who wanted information on the workings of Údarás and that he was being approached as a person the Government could trust.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has broadened the scope of the question. If he would relate his remarks to the question it would make the matter easier for the Chair.

Mr. Molloy

When the Chair hears all I have to say he will agree it is relevant. Mr. Delaney took it that the Minister was instructing him to report on certain matters to assist in a Government review of the operations of An tÚdarás. Mr. Delaney dutifully wrote the letter he was requested to write and handed it to this person who handed it not to the Minister but to Deputy Begley, then a junior Minister in another Department. Deputy Begley went post haste to Deputy O'Toole, Minister for the Gaeltacht, with this letter. When the Minister chose to ignore the contents of the letter Deputy Begley went public with it with an extensive interview in The Cork Examiner to force the hand of the Minister. Mr. Delaney was shocked that a confidential letter he had written for the Minister should now be the subject of press speculation following Deputy Begley's action.

The mean, vindictive use made by Deputy Begley of Mr. Delaney's confidential letter made it look as though Eamon Delaney had, of his own volition, deliberately written things on paper for the Minister's eyes which were uncomplimentary to Údarás na Gaeltachta.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy would relate his remarks to the question it would put the Chair at ease.

Mr. Molloy

Eamon Delaney was an honourable person who never did anything underhand in his life and he was greatly distressed that it might seem as if he had broken trust with his employer and his colleagues on the staff. This good man who had been used in this way by unscrupulous people was so distressed by all of this that he suffered a heart attack within a few days of his relating the story to me. He died instantly from this massive attack. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam naomhtha. To this day Eamon Delaney's good name had not been cleared officially. The Minister has a duty to do so.

Despite such a tragic outcome, the conspiracy against the Údarás continued. Despite an investigation by the Fraud Squad which the Minister knows showed there was no basis for any case against Údarás, the conspiracy continued. Evidence of this vindictive conspiracy abounds.

The Minister's assistant whom I mentioned today, Mr. Benson, was overheard in conversation with a journalist and an allegation followed that Mr. Benson was collaborating with a named journalist in a series of articles damaging to An Údarás.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may not name people who are not here to defend themselves.

Mr. Molloy

The person was named already.

Mr. Begley

The Deputy said the same about the former Minister, Mr. Tully, and he had to withdraw what he said.

Mr. Molloy

The Minister is aware that legal advice has judged the allegation to be well founded. I call now on the Minister to place this matter before an independent tribunal and to let the public judge whether there is a conspiracy. Would the Minister deny he has instructed Fine Gael members of the board of Údarás to obstruct in every way possible the working of Údarás and that this has been done by them since June 1983? Would the Minister deny he has countenanced the possession by Deputy Begley of Údarás confidential documents relative to a company in County Galway? Would the Minister deny that he is aware that the Garda are investigating an alleged statutory breach of confidentiality by a Fine Gael member of the board?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has been speaking for ten minutes but he has not yet come to the subject matter of the question.

Mr. Molloy

If the Chair will allow me I will do so. Would the Minister deny that it has been stated publicly by a Fine Gael member of the board that the Government have decided to replace appointed members of the board in order to contrive the dismissal of the chief executive of Údarás? I understand the Minister has stated he is not satisfied with information received regarding a loan to an Údarás-promoted company. If this is so, would he deny he has refused to meet the chairman and chief executive at the request of the board of Údarás where the matter might be cleared up once and for all?

Is it not further evidence of this petty, vindictive conspiracy that the Minister would go so far as to refuse to announce new projects bringing new jobs to Gaeltacht areas? Deputy O'Toole's ministry has been one of dismal failure for Gaeltacht areas. Road grants have been cut completely, there has been no increase to mná tí, there has been a major cutback in capital grants to Údarás na Gaeltachta, he has delayed development of the Rossaveal harbour with a loss of 200 jobs and he is creating complete confusion about the future operations of Údaras na Gaeltachta, the major industrial job-promoting body for Gaeltacht areas. He should drop this vindictive campaign or resign or move over to some other Department.

The Údarás have been doing their job well as is evident from some of the figures I have put before the House. I ask the Minister to stop the obstruction. This thing has gone on too long and it has gone too far. It is time the Taoiseach took a personal interest in this——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy was relevant for a short time. Is he sharing his time with some other Deputy?

Mr. Begley

On a point of order, will I be allowed to make a personal statement in reply to some of the allegations that have been made?

Mr. Molloy

Not in our time.

Mr. Tunney

Ní áit ar bith sa tír níos tábhachtaí ná an áit sin ar a dtugtar an Ghaeltacht. Níl daoine níos tábhachtaí sa tír ná muintir na Gaeltachta. Is é an fáth go ndeirim sin ná gur ghlac mé i gcónai go raibh saibhreas sa Ghaeltacht nach bhfuil in áit ar bith eile sa tír. Ní hionann é agus saibhreas maoine. Séard atá ann ná saibhreas cultúir, saibhreas intleachta — saibhreas ár ndaoine. Má imíonn sé ní bheimid in ann é a fháil ar ais.

Tá sa Ghaeltacht eagras ar a dtugtar Údarás na Gaeltachta. Bunaíodh an tÚdarás mar saghas comharba ar Ghaeltarra Éireann chun go mbeidh slí maireachtála ag muintir na Gaeltachta mar atá ag chuile dhuine eile sa tír. Is cúis díomá domsa, cúis fíor-dhíomá dom, go mór-mhór le bliain anuas, go bhfuil ionsaí á dhéanamh ar Údarás na Gaeltachta. Nuair a bhí mise mar urlabhraí ar an nGaeltacht thug me faoi Ghaeltarra Éireann faoi rudai áirithe, abair, nuair a chuir siad tuairisc bhliantiúil os comhair an Tí, nuair a bhí daoine dá bhfostú acu agus gan fianaise go raibh siad ag obair.

Glacaim gur ceart i gcónaí, go bhfuil dualgas orainn, tabhairt faoi rud ar bith nach mbreathnaíonn i gceart. Ach, is é an rud nach dtaithníonn liomsa faoin Údarás ná go bhfuil na ráflaí seo ann, go bhfuil an innuendo seo ann. Má tá rud ar bith ag déanamh imní do Theachta ar bith cén fáth nach n-abraíonn sé sa Teach é? Cén fáth go mbeadh aon leisce air é a rá taobh amuigh den Teach? Ach i nainm Dé caithfimid cothrom na Féinne a thabhairt don Údarás mar gach uair a laghdaítear ar an reputation atá ag an Údarás laghdaitear ar tábhacht na Gaeltachta.

Glacaim nach dteastaíonn ón Aire go mbeadh an laige sin ann, agus sin é an fáth go bhfuil mé ag iarraidh air anois agus go raibh mé ag iarraidh air inniu nach leor é a rá go raibh sé ag caint leis an Údarás ar an 20 lá den mhí seo caite. Má tá an deacracht seo ann ba cheart don Aire bheith i gcomhairle leis an Údarás chuile lá go dtí go gcuirfidh siad aon deacrachtaí atá ann in ord. Má tá fianaise aige nach bhfuil rudaí ag dul ar aghaidh mar is cóir, tá dualgas ar an Aire teacht isteach anseo agus é á rá, ach níl aon mhaith sa chiúineas nuair nach bhfuilimid cinnte go bhfuil rud ar bith ar strae. Glacaim go bhfuil chuile dhuine atá ina bhall den Údarás, chuile dhuine atá ag obair don Údarás, níos díograsaí faoina gcuid oibre ná mar atáimuid féin, ach nílimid ag tabhairt cothrom na Féinne dóibh nó do mhuintir na Gaeltachta má fhananimid ciúin agus an ionsaí á dhéanamh. Glacaim leis an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta Molloy. Muna gcloisim ón Aire freagraí ar na ceisteanna seo, ní bheidh aon dul as agam ach glacadh leis an méid atá ráite nach bhfuil bunús ar bith leis an ionsaí seo, ach go bhfuil leisce ar an Aire cosaint a dhéanamh ar na daoine atá neamhurchóideach. Níl anseo ach céim síos ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta.

Mr. D. Gallagher

Nuair a bunaíodh Údarás na Gaeltachta tugadh deis do mhuintir na Gaeltachta don chéad uair ariamh daoine a thoghadh chun labhairt thar ceann muintir na Gaeltachta, a chuirfeadh cuspóirí agus tábhacht na Gaeltachta os comhair an phobail agus a dhéanfadh iarracht le freastal ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Toghadh mór-sheisear, agus thogh Rialtas seisear eile. Don chéad uair ariamh, nuair a bunaíodh an tÚdarás bhí muintir na Gaeltachta féin in ann tabhairt faoi leigheas a chur ar chúrsaí sa Ghaeltacht, fostaíocht a chur ar fáil agus dearcadh i ndiaidh chuile rud a bhain le saol na Gaeltachta.

Ach céard a thárla. Ar feadh ceithre bliana gheall an Comhrialtas go mbeadh an tÚdarás ann, ach níor éirigh leis an Aire an tÚdarás a chur ar bun. Níl mise ag fáil locht ar bith ar an Aire. Rinne sé a chion féin don Ghaeltacht mar Aire agus níl achasán ar bith á chaitheadh leis, ach ní bhfuair sé tacaíocht ar bith óna pháirtí féin leis an Údarás a chur ar bun. Níor éirigh leis an tÚdarás a chur ar bun — bhí sé ceithre bliana ag iarraidh é a dhéanamh ach níor éirigh leis. Tá sé le feiceáil anois chuile lá nár theastaigh Údarás ariamh ó Fhine Gael. Tá daoine sa pháirtí sin atá go síorraí ag caitheamh anuas air ón gcéad lá ar tháinig sé i gcrích.

Le dhá bhliain tá caint ar rudaí atá in n-ainm a bheith ag tárlú sa Ghaeltacht, gadaíocht agus rudaí eile den chineál sin. Tugadh isteach an DPP le scrúdú a dhéanamh ar chomhlachtaí sa Ghaeltacht. Cuirim ceist ar an Aire anois: an bhfuil toradh an scrúdú le fáil? Má tá, an innseoidh sé dúinn cén toradh a bhí ar na scrúduithe sin? An innseoidh sé do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus don Dáil cén toradh a bhí ann? Táimid ag fanacht air le fada an lá ach tá an tAire ina shuí ansin ag déanamh tada chun an t-eolas sin a chur os cómhair na Dála nó na tíre.

Ag caint ar fhiosrúchán, ba mhaith liom a fháil amach céard dúirt an tAire leis an Údarás faoi fhiosrúchán? Tá a fhios agam céard adúradh ag Ard-Fheis Fhine Gael nuair a gheall an tAire go poiblí go gcuirfí an fiosrúchán ar siúl agus go ndéanfaí scrúdú ar chuile ghné de chaitheachas san Údarás. Cén uair a thárlós an fiosrúchán seo? An bhfuil an tAire in ann é sin a innsint dúinn anocht? An dtárlóidh sé nó cén uair a tharlóidh sé?

Rud eile, tá ceist muiníne san Údarás, agus tá mise ag tabhairt seans don Aire anocht, an fichiú uair ar feadh an lae, an bhfuil muinín aige san Údarás? Dhiúltaigh sé freagra a thabhairt inné nuair a chuireadh an cheist air ar chlár raidio agus dhiúltaigh sé freagra a thabhairt dom inniu sa Dáil nuair a chuir mé an cheist chéanna air — an bhfuil muinín aige san Údarás? Má tá, an innseoidh sé dúinn anocht go bhfuil, agus go bhfuil sé sásta leis an obair atá á déanamh acu ar mhaithe leis an Ghaeltacht? Tá an ceist seo faoi chaibidil ró-fhada agus tá dochar á dhéanamh don Údarás. Níl siad in ann a gcuid oibre a dhéanamh, deirtear. Cé h-iad nach bhfuil ag déanamh a gcuid oibre? Tá daoine i bPáirtí Fhine Gael go síorraí ag caitheamh anuas orthu, ag caitheamh drochmheas orthu, agus an tAire ag tabhairt tacaíochta dóibh, os rud é nach bhfuil sé sásta teacht isteach anseo agus an tÚdarás a chosaint, nó dul ar aghaidh leis an bhfiorúcháin atá geallta le fáil amach céard tá mícheart leis an Údarás agus gan a bheith ag ligint don rud seo bheith ag dul ar aghaidh ar feadh na blianta. Chuir sé féin ceisteanna nuair a bhí sé sa bhFhreasúra. Iarraim air anois mar Aire deireadh a chur leis na ráflaí seo ar fad agus an rud a cur ar bhealach amháin nó ar bhealach eile. Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an Aire anocht, mar dhuine ón iarthar, nó mar dhuine a bhfuil fearúlacht ann gan a bheith ag tabhairt áird ar dhaoine atá go siorraí ag clamhsán, gligíní casta, cama, nimhneacha nach ndeineann tada ach clamhsán ó mhaidin go hoíche. Cuireadh an tAire deireadh leis mar dhuine ón iarthar, agus mar dhuine a bhfuil fearúlacht ann, agus cuireadh sé an tÚdarás agus an Ghaeltacht ar a bhonn arís mar is cóir.

An Ceann Comhairle

An tAire chun deireadh a chur leis an díospóireacht.

Aire na Gaeltachta (Mr. O'Toole)

Ar thosach ba mhaith liom a rá gur cuireadh im leith ansin nár fhreagair mé an cheist inniu. Cuireadh ceist orm faoi cén uair a bhuail mé leis an Údarás i ó cé chomh minic. D'fhreagair mé an cheist gur bhuail mé leis an Údarás aon am ar tugadh cuireadh dom; gur bhuail mé leo an t-am deireannach ar an 20ú lá den mhí seo caite agus bhuail mé leo ar an ócáid sin ar iarratas uaimse toisc gur theastaigh uaim cur ós a gcomhair sonraí faoi rudaí faoi leith a bhí ag tárlú nach raibh ar eolas ag comhaltaí an Údaráis. Cheap mé, agus glacaim anois fiú amháin, go raibh sé de dhualgas ormsa é sin a dhéanamh agus go raibh sé de cheart ag comhaltaí an Údaráis an t-eolas sin a bheith acu.

Maidir leis an Teachta Molloy bhí a fhios agam go raibh sé simplí ach cheap mé nach raibh sé chomh simplí agus atá sé. Thug sé amach uaidh bréag i ndiaidh bréige agus fios mhaith aige gur bréaga a bhí ar siúl aige.

Mr. Molloy

An bhfuil sé ceart ag an Aire bréag——

Mr. O'Toole

Tá sé díreach chomh ceart le gligíní cama, casta a thabhairt ar dhaoine mar atá ráite ag an Teachta.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order to accuse anybody of telling a lie.

Mr. Molloy

Abair é sin leis an Aire.

Mr. O'Toole

Dúirt agus cruthóidh mé é go bhfuil an rud ceart á rá agam má éisteann tú liom.

Mr. Molloy

A Cheann Comhairle——

Mr. O'Toole

Níor chuir mise isteach ar an Teachta.

Mr. Molloy

Pointe eolais. Tá an tAire tar éis a chur im leith gur dhúirt mé bréag sa Teach seo agus——

(Cur isteach.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. Molloy

De réir na rialacha caithfidh sé é sin a tharraingt siar.

Mr. O'Toole

Tarraingeoidh mé siar é.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has withdrawn the remark.

Mr. O'Toole

Anois cruthóidh mé go bhfuil an méid a bhí á rá ag an Teachta mícheart. Uimhir (1) dúirt sé go raibh a fhios agamsa cén cinneadh a bhí déanta ag an DPP agus nach raibh mé ag rá focal faoi. Níl tuairisc — agus go deimhin dúirt daoine eile taobh amuigh den Teach é ar raidio agus teilifís. Níl fiú focal amháin faighte agamsa ón DPP i bhfoirm tuairisce faoi cén dearcadh atá aige ar na rudaí atá ós a chomhair.

Mr. D. Gallagher

Tá sé ag an Aire.

Mr. O'Toole

Dúradh go raibh sé agam. Níl sé agam.

(Cur Isteach.)

Mr. O'Toole

Luaigh tú an Fraud Squad agus go raibh a fhios agam céard a bhí ag tárlú. Níl a fhios agam agus ní bhfuair mé focal amháin uaidh. An nglacann an Teachta sin uaim. Uimhir (2) — éist liom agus gheobhaidh tú an rud céanna ar ais agus an fhírinne an t-am seo — dúirt tú go raibh mé ag cur bac ar. fhorbairt Ros a'Mhíl. Sin bréag. Tá sé sin mícheart. Go deimhin an tseachtain seo caite — ba mhaith liom a rá leat tríd an gCathaoir go raibh mé ag iarraidh an fhorbairt sin a chur chun cinn agus má chuireann tú ceist ar fhoireann agus ar fheidhmeannaigh an Údaráis beidh siad in ann é a innsint duit. Uimhir (3)——

(Cur isteach.)

Mr. O'Toole

An nglacann an Teachta uaimse go bhfuil mé ag innsint na fírinne? Tá an toradh céana a bhí le feiceáil nuair a bhí an Teachta agus a cháirde thall ar an taobh seo den Teach agus bhí an rud céanna ar siúl an t-am sin. Dúradh chomh maith go bhfuil díultaithe agam an cathaoirleach agus an príomh-fheidhmeannach fheiceál. Ba mhaith liom a rá leis an Teachta Molloy gur bhuail mé le Cathaoirleach an Udaráis inné. Ba mhaith liom a rá leis an Teachta gur scanallach an rud é ainm fir atá caillte, go ndéanfa Dia grásta air, agus go dtug mise onóir dó ar an taobh sin den Teach mar go raibh a fhios agam gur fear ionraic a bhí ann. Deárfaidh mé é sin go poiblí agus déarfaidh mé arís é. Sin rud níos mó ná mar a dúradh ar an taobh seo den Teach ag an am.

Níor dhúirt mise focal amháin poiblí i gcoinne an Údaráis, aon chomhalta no éinne de fhoireann nó de fheidhmeannaigh an Údaráis. Is é an fáth atá leis sin nác go bhfuil mé ag obair le Bord an Udaráis. Bhuail mé leo níl a fhios agam cé mhéid uair. Bhuail mé le feidhmeannaigh an Údaráis leo féin; bhuail mé leis an bpríomh-fheidhmeannach leis féin agus leis an gcathaoirleach leis fein níl fhios agam cé mhéid uair ó ceapadh mé an t-am deireannach. Tá mise ag seasamh anseo anocht le eolas a chuireann imní orm maidir le iasacht £170,000 agus níl sé de cheart ag éinne, muna bhfuil a fhios aige céard faoi a bhfuil sé ag caint a chos a chur ann agus an rud a chasadh toisc nach bhfuil an t-eolas aige. Tá iarrtha agamsa don chéad uair ar an 11 Lúnasa agus arís ar an 30 Meán Fomhair eolas faoi leith a thabhairt dom faoi chuntas bainc, faoi ainmneacha daoine. Tá sé de cheart agam agus de dhualgas orm faoi Alt 20 d'Act na Gaeltachta an e-eolas sin a iarraidh agus an t-eolas sin a fháil ón mbord. Tá diúltaithe ní ag an mbord ach ag an bpríomh-fheidhmeannach an t-eolas sin a chur ar fáil don bhord ionas go gcuirfidh an Bord ar fáil domsa é. Sin í an fhírinne. Tá seans agam anois é sin a rá. Níl an t-eolas fáighte agam maidir le cruinniú an tSathairn seo caite. Níl cúntas ná tuarascáil oifigiúil fáighte agamsa go fóill. Bhí mé caint leis an gcathaoirleach tráthnóna inné, tá sé ag cur tuarascala scríofa ar fáil dom faoi céard a thárla an Satharn seo caite. Nuair a gheobhas mé é sin beidh sé le cur faoi bhráid an Rialtais ag an gcéad chruinniú eile——

(Cur isteach.)

Mr. O'Toole

An nglacann an Teachta——

Mr. Molloy

Níl aon toradh le feiceáil——

Mr. O'Toole

Tá an toradh céanna——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister should be allowed to speak without interruptions. He has only two minutes left.

Mr. O'Toole

Cuirfidh mé an cheist seo ar an Teachta. Dá mbeadh sé anseo mar Aire, rud nach bhfuil agus rud nach mbeidh go ceann i bhfad, agus dá mbeadh fianaise aige gur thárla rudaí nach raibh sé sásta leo mar Aire, an suíodh sé síos agus a gcoinneodh sé a bhéal dúnta.

Mr. Molloy

Cén fath nó bhuail tu leo? Dhiúltaigh sé ——

Mr. O'Toole

Níor dhiúltaigh ——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Molloy was not interrupted and he should let the Minister reply.

(Cur isteach).

Mr. O'Toole

Níl me ag rá sin agus ni ceart don Teachta a leithéid a rá.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputies were not interrupted and they should allow the Minister to reply.

Mr. O'Toole

Tá an Teachta ——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister without interruption.

Mr. O'Toole

Seasóidh mé le sin ——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister should be allowed to reply.

Mr. O'Toole

Tiocfaidh an fhírinne amach agus beidh bhur mbéil dúnta ag cuid agaibh atá ag iarraidh bréag a chur im'leith. Rugadh agus tógadh mise sa Ghaeltacht.

(Cur isteach).

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister should be allowed reply.

Mr. O'Toole

Muna bhfuil na Teachtaí sásta éisteacht leis an méid atá á rá agam bíodh agaibh. Tá an fhírinne searbh agus tá sé searbh do chuid agaibh.

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 9 November 1983.