asked the Minister for Justice when the judicial inquiry into allegations of political interference with gardaí, which was promised in the Fine Gael-Labour Programme for Government, will be commenced; what its terms of reference will be; when it will be expected to report; and if the report will be published.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Political Interference Allegations.
16.
(Limerick East): These are matters for Government decision which will be announced in due course.
In the Joint Programme for Government it was announced that there would be an inquiry and some months later the Minister announced that there would be an inquiry into political interference with the Garda. It is now over a year since the last announcement about it was made. Will the Minister confirm that this inquiry will be going ahead?
(Limerick East): On the judicial inquiry which was promised in the Joint Programme for Government, at the time it was envisaged that it would establish the facts and recommend action to prevent further abuses. In the meantime many of the facts have been established by Garda inquiries and by the courts. Some Garda inquiries are continuing. It has become clear to the Minister that a certain course of action will have to be taken now on the basis of the facts available. For example, I am committed to the establishment of a police authority to insulate the Garda from political interference and also it would have implications for the organisation and efficiency of the force. It is a matter for Government decision and that will be announced in due course but the Government have to balance what is now available to them and the fact that the inquiries are ongoing in at least one respect. They will have to take these matters into account and the possible recommendations that such an inquiry could make when it makes its decision.
Will the Minister agree that this promise is apparently being broken by the Government? In fact, the judicial inquiry which was proposed by the Government was to cover a previous three-year period. The joint programme stated that the terms of reference of the inquiry would cover the previous three years. The intention at the time was to cover the period of the two Ministers immediately previous to this and about whom there had been previous allegations. Surely the Minister cannot be suggesting to us at this stage that the partial and one sided inquiry which was carried out and was, as he said, to establish certain facts, was in any way an adequate inquiry even into one side of the matter and the immediate period before the Minister's term of office? That could not be regarded as having covered the past three years, which was the firm commitment of both sides going into the election.
(Limerick East): There was a commitment on a judicial inquiry and the Government have not as yet decided on the issue. If and when the Government make a decision an announcement will be made. Of course the Deputy is correct in saying that the terms of reference extended over the period of office of three Ministers, not the entire period. It extended over the period of office of my two immediate predecessors and portion of the period of office of my third predecessor. I am telling the House that quite a lot of facts have been established. Certainly, sufficient facts have been established for me to be concerned enough to take action and commit myself as Minister to a police authority. There is no question of the Government breaking their commitment. It is a question of the Government not having made a decision at this point. Certainly, there is no reluctance on the part of the Government on the grounds of political expediency or anything like that in having the inquiry.
I have to admit to being slightly confused with the Minister's response on the question of whether the inquiry will be going ahead or not. I take it that the announcement he made in January 1983 that there would be an inquiry concerning political interference in the Garda arose from the Cabinet meetings that were going on all night at that stage and that a definite decision was taken then to have an inquiry? Is the Minister telling the House that that decision no longer stands and that the Cabinet must look at the matter again and decide whether there will be an inquiry?
(Limerick East): I would be grateful if the Deputy would indicate which statement he is referring to in January. In the light of what I have said about a committee of inquiry or a judicial inquiry being intended to establish the facts and make recommendations I want to point out that these matters, and the facts available, will be examined by the Government and the decision made. That decision will be communicated.
My information is that the Minister made a statement on television in January 1983 reaffirming that an inquiry would be held into political interference in the Garda and that that statement was supported by a Fianna Fáil press statement and by The Workers' Party who also suggested that the inquiry should go back ten years and not just three years.
(Limerick East): Certainly, the commitment is in the Joint Programme for Government. In the light of what I have said in reply to supplementaries it is a matter for the Government to make a decision and that will be announced in due course.
Will the Minister agree that it was his arrival, and of his Government, which in effect stopped the inquiry which had been set in motion by Fianna Fáil shortly before they went out of office? Will the Minister agree that it is very difficult not to arrive at the conclusion that the Minister has something on his conscience and has lost his appetite——
That is argument.
——for independent inquiries? Will the Minister agree that a judicial inquiry is the best way to reestablish confidence and remove doubts in this area?
(Limerick East): I do not agree with either of Deputy Woods' allegations and I would have thought that at this stage Deputy Woods would be reluctant to make further allegations but, obviously, some Deputies never learn.
That is argument.
(Limerick East): Secondly, I should like to say that whether or not there is a judicial inquiry I am not going to wait for the results of it to take actions which I consider necessary. For example, the question of promotions within the Garda Síochána has been dealt with and agreement has been reached with the relevant bodies at conciliation and arbitration. On the question of an independent complaints procedure there is an absolute commitment to that given on the publication of the Criminal Justice Bill. I will repeat it, that the extra powers given to the Garda under that Bill will not be introduced by order of the Minister until a complaints procedure with a strong independent element is operational. Thirdly, I have said that it is important that the criteria which allows a Minister to sign a warrant which involves the tapping of a telephone are being adhered to absolutely. It is also important that they be strengthened. I have committed myself to introduce legislation to make sure that they are strengthened. Finally, on the question of a police authority, I am committed to setting up such a body not only to insulate the Garda from political interference but also because the question of the police authority must be examined for the implications it has for the organisation and efficiency of the Garda Síochána.
I will allow Deputy Treacy one final supplementary on this question.
The Minister is the person vested with the authority to administer the police force and is responsible for the security of the State and I should like to know if he feels that there is a need for this independent judicial inquiry. If that is the case will he tell the House if he has made such a recommendation to the Government? If he has made such a recommendation will he tell the House the Government's attitude and if he has not will he tell us why?
(Limerick East): The Minister speaks as Minister for Justice and part of a Cabinet. I should like to refer the Deputy to my reply.
The Minister did not answer the first part of my question. I accept that the Chair is not responsible for answers given by a Minister. I wanted the Minister to confirm that the inquiry which was set in motion by the previous Government was stopped on the arrival of the Coalition Government.
(Limerick East): I was being kind to the Deputy by saying that I did not agree with the allegation he made. I still do not agree with the allegation he made, that there was any initiation of any inquiry when we came to Government.
I am moving on to the next question because this is developing into argument across the House.
I am grateful to the Chair for allowing the Minister to make that reply because there is documentary evidence in relation to the facts. I am anxious that that is placed on the record of the House.
(Limerick East): I would be glad if the Deputy would provide me with it.
I should like to ask a question arising out of the Minister's reply to me.
I have allowed the Deputy who tabled the question, and the spokesman from the Deputy's party, to ask a generous number of supplementary questions and that is that.
I am entitled to get an answer to my question