It is proposed to take item No. 7. By agreement and notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders the speech of every Member contributing to the debate on the national economic and social plan this week will not exceed 30 minutes with the exception of the final speaker for the Opposition who shall be called on not later than 3.30 p.m. on Thursday next and the concluding speaker who shall be a Member of the Government shall be called on not later than 4.15 p.m. on Thursday next. Also by agreement there will be no Private Members' Business this week.
Order of Business.
Are the arrangements for the debate as outlined and the dropping of Private Members' Business for this week agreed?
Deputies
No.
I shall deal separately with these matters. I am putting the question that the arrangements for the debate—the length of speeches and the calling of the final two speakers—be agreed.
Question put and agreed to
Is it agreed that there shall be no Private Members' Business this week?
It is not so agreed. A similar move was made last week despite there being 47 items on the Order Paper for discussion during Private Members' time. Allowing for the normal procedure of dealing with one item each week, it would take almost two years to have all these items dealt with. Ten of the items in question have been tabled by The Workers' Party and some of these have been on the Order Paper for almost two years. We have not been given any opportunity to have those matters debated. Consequently, we are opposing again this week the dropping of Private Members' Business which we consider to be an attack on the rights of Members to have debated during Private Members' time matters which they consider to be important, in particular the question of food subsidies which the House has refused to debate up to now. It is a disgrace.
Will Deputies supporting the call for a division please rise in their places?
Deputies Gregory-Independent, O'Connell, Tomás Mac Giolla and Proinsias De Rossa rose in their places.
As fewer than ten Deputies have risen, in accordance with Standing Orders I declare the motion carried. The names of those dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.
On the Order of Business, because the Chair ruled that the Taoiseach does not have ministerial responsibility for the Government Press Secretary in an article over his name in The Sunday Press of 14 October——
The Deputy is not in order.
——I wish to give notice of my intention to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
On the Order of Business, I should like the Chair and the House to recall that last week the question of the establishment of a national day of commemoration was raised in the House and the Taoiseach undertook to pursue the matter. I wish to draw the attention of the Chair to the fact——
May I interrupt the Deputy for a moment——
He did that to my question, too.
I will certainly allow Deputy Haughey to raise the matter of a committee but discussion on the merits or demerits of another proposal would not be in order at this time.
I just wish to recall to the Chair and to the House that last week the Taoiseach undertook to pursue vigorously the question of the establishment of a national day of commemoration. Despite constant approaches by our Chief Whip, it was not until this morning that the very scant terms of a motion for the establishment of such a committee were given to us. That is one week later. I must draw the attention of the Chair to the fact that in the interim the Taoiseach and the Government went ahead with the decision to have the Irish Army participate again this year in the November ceremonies——
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
It is relevant to the establishment of a committee.
It is not.
The Chair may recall that we indicated that our agreement to participate in such a committee would be dependent on no further action being taken in regard to this matter until such time as the committee were established and had reported. I regard the Government deciding last Friday when this whole question of the committee——
I will not allow the Deputy to make a speech.
It is an important point dealing with the business of the House. Last week the Taoiseach undertook——
I will not allow a debate on this matter.
In the interim the Government proceeded to take a decision that the Irish Army should participate again this year in the Poppy Day ceremonies. In my view, and I must say this with all deliberation, that constitutes an act of bad faith by the Taoiseach and the Government to me and to my party in regard to this sensitive matter.
With all due deliberation, I must say the Deputy does not know what he is talking about. To my knowledge, no invitation has yet been received or considered by the Government. I do not know what farrago of nonsense or figment of imagination the Deputy has conjured up.
Does the Taoiseach acknowledge that since the discussion last week a decision by the Government was announced that the Irish Army would participate in these ceremonies again this year?
The Army.
No such decision has been announced because no such invitation has been received. I do not know what the Deputy is talking about.
May I ask why this report in the newspaper was not contradicted by his ubiquitous and universally loquacious press secretary?
I am not aware of what report the Deputy is talking about or what figment of imagination he has worked up in his head. I am not aware of any invitation having been received at this stage and the matter has not been brought to the Government for any decision. The Deputy is talking nonsense.
If I have made a mistake in this matter by adverting to press reports which now are, according to the Taoiseach, tendentious then I must acknowledge that to the House. May I take it from the Taoiseach now that no such decision has been taken by the Government? Will he guarantee to me that there will be no participation by the Army in any ceremonies this year until the committee have been established and have reported?
This does not arise on the issue and I am not prepared to go into it. We have proposed, and have finally got the Opposition to the point of discussing the establishment of this committee. I hope the committee can proceed rapidly with their work and in an atmosphere of rather less controversy than the Opposition seem to want to induce at this stage.
We take it there will be no decision in the meantime?
I was glad to hear what the Taoiseach said because the report this morning from the Government Press Secretary implied that I delayed answering a letter——
That does not arise now.
It is a very important point for me.
That may be, but it does not arise now.
I want the Taoiseach or the Government Whip to confirm once and for all that while I had discussions last April about this matter and the establishment of an all-party committee, the first time the Government wrote to the Opposition and to me as Chief Whip was on 14 August and that was answered on 6 September. The implication that I delayed answering for six months should be withdrawn now.
It was again used by the Taoiseach now.
, Dún Laoghaire): There was no effort, certainly on my part, ever to allow any discussions that took place between Deputy Ahern and myself to be reported to the newspapers. It was other people who decided to drag this into the media, not anyone in this House. It was only when various allegations were made by people outside this House that it was necessary for us to defend our position. There were insinuations that we were dragging our feet and that was not true. As long as I am in this position, I will not come into this House and let down my opposite number in any way in the matter of private discussions between us. Deputy Ahern is quite aware of what happened and I am quite happy as to what happened. The Taoiseach answered a question here last week and I would prefer to leave it at that. I do not ever want to see relationships between Whips dragged into this House and debated at length.
In a pejorative way the Taoiseach said that at long last he had got the Opposition to agree.
(Dún Laoghaire): I was hounded by the media in the past ten days.
The Taoiseach has let the Deputy down.
(Dún Laoghaire): An effort was made to have a confrontation between the Whips but I refrained from that course and I will continue to refrain from it.
I am moving from this matter now.
Before the Chair moves to the next item——
I am calling on Deputy Burke——
Will the Taoiseach tell the House to whom did the invitation come in 1983 — was it to the Taoiseach, the Government or the Army?
I am moving to the next business and I call Deputy Burke.
With regard to promised legislation, I should like to ask the Taoiseach when it is intended to introduce legislation on the reorganisation of local authorities? Does he intend that this legislation will be passed before next June?
I think the legislation will be introduced at the beginning of the next session. That would be my best guess but it is difficult to say at this stage. The intention is that it will be passed in time to come into effect so that the local elections may be held next June.
If it is not to be introduced until the next session——
We cannot have an argument on this matter.
Next session the budget will be introduced and there will also be the Finance Bill. Local government reform is a very serious matter and there is also the matter of the reorganisation of the Dublin area as promised by the Government and as announced by the Minister for the Environment. Does the Taoiseach seriously suggest that that kind of legislation will be given proper debate and consideration having regard to the amount of Dáil time that will be available?
It would be my hope that it would be introduced this session——
The Taoiseach said in the next session.
I have somewhat bitter experience of giving indications of that kind and finding that it is not possible to adhere to them. Therefore, I am becoming increasingly cautious about giving timetables.
Hear, hear.
In a matter of this kind it may be the case that prior to the publication of legislation an indication of intention as to how the Government might tend to proceed might be made available in some form so that the Opposition might give consideration to it. I have not made up my mind on that but I am not excluding the possibility of some prior consultation or information in advance of the actual drafting of the legislation.
I want to ask the Taoiseach when a Dublin Transport Authority Bill will be brought before this House in view of the fact that heads of that Bill were sent to the Attorney General and to the parliamentary draftsmen prior to December 1982?
That Bill will be ready quite soon.
Which means before Christmas?
Oh, yes.
Would that not be involved in the Dublin reorganisation Bill?
No. It is, I think, possible to establish a Dublin Transport Authority, and to place it in a context that would be relevant to a different local government context from the present one. I think that is a problem which can be overcome.
When will a local independent radio Bill be brought before the House?
Within the next few weeks.
Have the Cabinet agreed the terms of this Bill already or is there some dispute within the Cabinet, within the two parties within the Cabinet?
The Bill will come before the House in the next couple of weeks.
A Cheann Comhairle, it is all covered by a national plan and you will be there for a little while yet.
The Deputy should leave these matters to his leader who is quite capable of dealing with these trivial matters himself.
Is the Taoiseach aware that he gave that undertaking in the last session?
I cannot allow argument on these things.
Would the Taoiseach indicate to the House when the Government propose introducing the necesary legislation giving effect to the commitment given to Cork Deputies in reply to a parliamentary question of Tuesday 29 May 1984 on the designation of Ringaskiddy port and industrial estate as a free zone and the designation of the Ringaskiddy Industrial Estate and three Cork city industrial areas for higher IDA grants?
I could not give the Deputy a date at present. I shall be happy to look into it and communicate with him.
It is up in the air.
Can the Taoiseach say when any one of the three Children Bills will be introduced?
Two of the three Children Bills are at an advanced stage of preparation. It would be hoped to introduce the first one to the House in the relatively near future, the second not long after that. The third has yet to be completed.
I ask for permission to raise my Private Notice Question.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.