asked the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry if a licence has been issued for the taking of red deer from the Killarney herd for commercial purposes; if so, the terms of such a licence; and whether he is aware of the feelings of dismay among all those interested in the conservation of our national heritage by reports of the issue of such a licence.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Killarney Red Deer Herd.
11.
A licence to capture such animals alive as breeding stock for deer farming purposes was granted some time ago. It relates to the six month period from 1 September 1984 to 28 February 1985 and is confined to a limited area in respect of which the applicants had the written permission of the landowners concerned.
The licence requires that capture be carried out only by methods approved under the Wildlife Act, 1976 and provides that any deer so captured be tagged and appropriately recorded. It was also made clear that any introduction of deer from other sources would not be countenanced.
I am aware that reservations have been expressed in the matter. However, I can assure the Deputy that, while any action taken on foot of the licence is not likely to pose a threat to the Killarney herd of red deer, the situation has been closely monitored and my understanding is that, to date, no animals have been captured.
I might add that, as a result of certain information — which was only very recently brought to my notice — in relation to a change in the licensee's circumstances, I am having the position reviewed as a matter of urgency.
Might I ask the Minister if the Wildlife Advisory Council were consulted by him or his officers before the licence was issued? Were any other bodies interested in deer or in conservation consulted? If so, what views were expressed about the matter? Is there any limit placed in the licence on the number of red deer which can be captured or taken by the licensee?
Such consultations did not take place and the licence did not specify a limit to the number of deer to be taken. The reason for this is that it was felt — this has been borne out by what has happened in the last four month period — that so few have been captured anyway——
None.
——that if any were captured they would be so few that it would have made no difference to the stock. As it happens, so far no deer have been captured.
I want to pursue this purely in a non-political way, strictly in the interest of conservation. Does the Minister not think it is extraordinary behaviour by him in his departmental capacity to issue a licence of this sort with such far-reaching implications without consulting the body specifically set up by the Oireachtas to advise in matters of this sort? Does he not think that by issuing a licence for a protected species without consulting the council he is making a mockery of our whole process of conservation? Does he not think that it is irresponsible on somebody's part to have issued a licence of this sort without any limitation on numbers? Does the Minister not think that it was irresponsible to have issued a licence at all, but does he not think that to have issued a licence without any limitation on numbers for a rare and imperilled herd which in total numbers only 300 indicates that somebody has behaved in an extraordinary fashion?
I am told the herd is roughly 400——
It is 300.
We will not argue on the figures involved. The licence was issued on the basis that the anticipated success with which the licensee would capture these deer was such that very few would be caught. Let the herd be 300 or 400, it was felt that this would not in any way endanger the species. I would point out to the Deputy that because of information that came to me recently I am having a real hard look at this question and I hope to take action very shortly.
I am relieved to hear that news. I genuinely and sincerely hope that the Minister will withdraw the licence immediately. I want to avail of the opportunity to impress on the Minister——
Deputy Haughey has a personal interest in relation to his own herd.
Is the Minister aware of the fact, and I am sure he is aware of it, that this is a unique species in Ireland, that it is the last remaining pure bred herd of Irish red deer, that there is no other pure bred herd anywhere in the country, that this herd has been gravely endangered—at one stage it was practically extinct? Now it has more or less stabilised at around 300 but it is hardly a viable herd. It is a priceless national asset and, far from issuing a licence of this sort which would endanger its future in any way, the Minister and his advisers should take every possible step open to them to protect this herd and to ensure not just its preservation but its enlargement. If the Minister is aware of it, would he advert to the fact that the real danger in regard to this herd is that of inbreeding, that everywhere else throughout the country red deer have inbred with sika and other deer, and that the introduction of a deer farm into the Killarney area carries a grave danger of bringing a process of inbreeding? To introduce a deer farm into the Killarney area where the last herd has found its last refuge is the environmental equivalent of bringing a lighted torch into an explosives factory. I used that simile advisedly.
I will not go into the simile but I agree that this is the last outpost of the species, Killarney National Park. I hope it will become more viable and that it will be preserved. In case any misapprehension goes abroad in relation to the licence, I wish to point out that certain conditions attach to it. First, the capture of deer was for breeding purposes which in theory would expand the herd.
That is the danger.
No. 2, it was confined to the Killarney area and No. 3, there is strict prohibition in the conditions in relation to what the Deputy described as a danger of inbreeding or mixing with other species. The preservation of the purity of the species was a sine qua non. I agree that we have been very fortunate at a very late stage to have had the common sense to concern ourselves with the preservation of the species, which is unique. These are the only ones left. The matter is now in hand and I can assure the Deputy and the House that a close eye will be kept on it and action will be taken. I hope the Deputy's own herd is doing well.
It is, thank God. I am grateful to the Minister for the manner in which he has met me on this matter. I will not pursue it any further. I am reassured by what the Minister said about this licence. Before concluding may I ask the Minister again to keep in mind in the future the priceless nature of this herd of deer? Apart from this instance, would he accept that anything in the nature of deer farming in any proximity to this last refuge for this herd would be courting environmental disaster? I will say no more than that. I will leave it to the good offices of the Minister.
Was the Minister consulted before this licence was issued? Will he now take steps to revoke the licence?
I have already said that I am taking steps to review the position in the light of the circumstances which have been brought to my notice in the past week. Steps will be taken.
The power of the parliamentary question.
Was the Minister consulted by the Department before this licence was issued?
Ministers are consulted about a variety of things.
Yes or no?
There are things I was consulted about which I have forgotten, and there are things I have not been consulted about.
Is the Minister covering up for the Department?
I am not covering up for the Department.
I suggest to the Minister that it was a mistake to grant this licence, especially in view of the fact that in 1980 the number of native red deer in Killarney was reduced considerably. At that time the Office of Public Works——
A question, please, Deputy.
——took steps to save the red deer in Killarney. At that time the sika deer were pushing the red deer up the hill.
I cannot allow a speech. The Deputy must ask a question.
They had no vegetation. The number of red deer in Killarney has increased due to the fact that the Office of Public Works took steps——
The Deputy is being unfair.
Will the Minister withdraw the licence in view of the information I have given him?
The matter is in hand. Will the Deputy allow me to have a look at it and take appropriate action if I deem it necessary? Deputy Begley and Deputy McEllistrim both come from Kerry. Deputy Haughey is somewhat removed from the area I am talking about. Complaints come from farmers in that area about damage caused by these deer.
That is a different matter.
It is a different matter, but there is a danger that farmers might take it upon themselves to destroy the deer they deem as dangerous or damaging to their crops.
Deer farming is different.
I am talking about the deer in Killarney. I would ask Deputies if they can, to influence such people to refrain from shooting deer they think cause damage.