asked the Minister for Communications if he is aware of the severe hardship currently being experienced by many former Irish Shipping employees; and the action open to him to alleviate their position.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Shipping Employees.
4.
The Government have considered the position of the former employees of Irish Shipping Limited on a number of occasions over the last year. It has not proved possible, however, to overcome the legal and other constraints which prevent Exchequer assistance being extended. I regret that I cannot see any way out of this situation.
As regards the pensioners of the company, the concession whereby those who worked in Irish Shipping Limited during the Second World War or their spouses had the ex gratia elements of their pensions, which were formerly paid by the company, met from the Exchequer, has been extended to cover all the pensioners previously in receipt of such ex gratia payments. Payments to those involved, including retrospection, will be made before Christmas.
If the Minister finds it difficult legally to make any move in this matter, has he considered setting up a tribunal as was done in the case of the Stardust tragedy to get over the difficulty? I would point out to the Minister that Dublin Port and Docks have been making redundancy payments of £30,000, Verolme £38,000, Irish Steel £23,000, Avoca £32,000 and Irish Shipping £3,000. In view of the above will the Minister consider setting up a Stardust-type tribunal to deal with this matter in a humane way?
The trouble with Deputy Brennan throughout this debate is that he very seldom got his facts right and when he got any facts right he was very selective. Unfortunately the figure he has quoted for Irish Shipping workers is correct. All the other companies he mentioned are not undertakings that closed down owing huge liabilities and I am sure the Deputy is well aware of the difference. A like comparison would be money paid to a number of private companies that were liquidated owing a considerable amount of money to the shareholders. It is a fact that under the law dealing with bankruptcy we cannot prefer one set of creditors over another. We have explored this matter very sympathetically in a very thorough way in an effort to help the workforce who deserve help but we have not found a way of doing it. When I say "we" I am not just talking about myself and the Department; I am talking about the Government and the Office of the Attorney General. Many suggestions were put forward but it was not found possible to do anything in the matter.
I must ask the Minister once again if he has considered the setting up of a Stardust-type tribunal? In dealing with that tragic event the action taken was speedy and it got to the heart of the matter in dealing with the victims. There are victims in this case also and if the Government introduced similar legislation in this case it would get over all the legalities. Is the Minister aware that very few of the former employees have got employment and that well over 100 of them — these facts are accurate and can be checked — are owed between £4,000 and £8,000 in wages due to them when Irish Shipping closed down? They are in dire circumstances. I do not accept what the Minister has said, namely, that no action is possible. I am specifically proposing a type of action to the Minister.
That is not a question. The Deputy is making a speech.
Will the Minister set up a Stardust-type tribunal?
This has been one of the most heartbreaking episodes I have ever had to deal with and I can assure the Deputy that if I could come with good news of the kind he has mentioned I would be only too pleased. It gives me no joy whatever to say it is not possible to accept the suggestion he has made or any of the many other suggestions made. We do this on the best legal advice.
The question I am about to ask the Minister is one I asked on a previous occasion but I did not get a satisfactory answer. If the liquidation proceedings were complete, would the legal difficulties about which the Minister is speaking disappear? Would he then be at liberty to come before the House with legislation that would be to the benefit of the former employees of Irish Shipping?
I am not a lawyer and I cannot answer specific questions. If the Deputy would like to table the question I can assure him I will deal with it.
I asked the Minister the question several times but I did not get a reply.
It is a question about which we would need formal notice. I would have to take advice before replying to it. My impression is that it would not be possible.
Will the Minister state what are the plans for the crew of the Irish Spruce who are at present in Marseilles abandoned by the Government and by the Department? We are in the season of goodwill and I ask the Minister to do something to alleviate the serious problems and the loneliness the crew have to endure.
The crew are employed by the liquidator and any of the crew who wish to come home can do and their expenses would be paid by the liquidator.