asked the Minister for Education the precise percentage fee increases for third level VEC colleges announced by his Department for the academic year 1986-87 in the following courses: certificate, diploma and degree.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - VEC College Fees.
36.
The percentage fee increases for third level courses in VEC colleges in 1986-87 as compared with 1985-86 are as follows: Certificate courses, 11.3 per cent; Diploma courses, 19.9 per cent; Degree courses (excluding architecture and engineering), 18.3 per cent; Architecture and engineering degree courses, 17.6 per cent.
Inflation this year will be nil, or so the teachers have been told. Therefore increases in fees of 11.3 per cent, 19.9 per cent and 18.3 per cent in third level colleges are beyond the capability of any student or parent to meet. Would the Minister agree that this is pricing such colleges out of the reach of the average student?
I would not agree with the Deputy in her last conclusion. Nor would I agree that these percentage increases are excessive because they cannot be looked at in isolation purely as percentage increases; we have to look at the base on which these percentage increases are founded and these fees are increases on what was a very low base indeed.
There is a rumour abroad that RTCs and VECs must have their fees raised as near as possible to university prices.
There is no such policy decision.
That was the answer that the previous Minister gave me here. She told me that the reason the fees were rising was——
Ask a question.
My answer is being confounded and I must set the Minister straight.
I am sorry, but you may not.
The Minister has said he does not find such rises excessive. Bearing in mind that RTCs do not, to date, have the facilities which are available in traditional universities, how does the Minister expect the young people to get the technological and scientific education necessary for them, and to which the Government have such commitment, if they cannot enter the colleges because of the high levels of fees? Is the Minister aware that while there are ESF grants for two years of those courses there are none going on to certification or to degree?
What I said was that these percentage increases cannot be looked at in isolation as percentage increases per se. They have to be related to the base to which they refer. The point I was making to the Deputy is that the base of these fees was traditionally very low and even with these increases added the fees are still substantially less than equivalent fees in universities.
I know that, but that is not the point of my question. My point was to ask the Minister how he can stand over increases from 11 per cent to 20 per cent in one year on third level fees. It is a very simple question. How can that be to the advantage of the student?
The fees have to be based on a realistic figure that is just and realistic in relation to the income of the vocational educational committee concerned and in relation to all the other demands on the Irish taxpayer. It is my opinion that the percentage increases put forward, having regard to the low base on which these percentage increases are based, are fair and reasonable bearing in mind also the wide range of substantial grants available to the majority of students attending these colleges.
The Minister keeps referring to the low base. Would he not accept that over the last three years that low base has been eroded and in fact wiped out by this Government who have each year pushed huge fee increases on RTCs and VECs? No matter how the Minister tries to deny that, it is a fact. Fee rises from 11 per cent to 20 per cent just cannot be right. It is closing the door to many who could otherwise go into third level education.
That is a gross exaggeration.
It is a statement of fact, not a gross exaggeration.