I am very relieved that Fianna Fáil are not neutral on this Bill. I would be very afraid of their stance in that instance. Unlike the last speaker, I will not take long to cover the few points I wish to make on this Bill.
First, I welcome the Bill. It meets a number of criteria which are important. It meets a Government need to provide resources for things which in other circumstances might not be provided for through normal taxation. It also extends a form of entertainment to a number of people, as part of the Irish culture and psyche is to enjoy gambling and betting and it facilitates that.
My contribution will be very brief indeed. There are just a few points I would like to put on the record of the House for the Government to consider. First, in relation to the proceeds of the lottery, I concur with the previous speaker who would like to see specified in the legislation itself where the surpluses of the lottery will go.
I should like to see the proceeds going equally in four directions, the first being sport. There is a grave need in my home town of Enniscorthy for a swimming pool, a very important recreational facility, and a local voluntary group have to raise £250,000. There is a very limited scheme by way of loan subsidy in the Department of the Environment for this type of activity. County Wexford has no athletics track. I should like the portion of the lottery proceeds which goes to sport to go for capital expenditure on sport. Money going to pay administrative expenses of an organisation tends to be latent and hidden. It would be preferable to have tangible results of the lottery in the form of capital expenditure.
Sport is very important. While he is in the House, I should like to pay tribute to the former Minister with responsibility for sport, Deputy Creed, who originated this lottery idea. This was included in Building on Reality and every Member of the House welcomed it at the time. It is disappointing, after his work, that there is no provision for sport under this Bill. I support Deputy Creed's demands that it be specified.
However, there are other needs which also should be specified. Voluntary charities, no doubt, will lose a certain element of their fund raising through the lottery.
Instant bingo cards for polio and other organisations, sold on a weekly basis, including the Enniscorthy weekly draw, HOC — Help Our Community — will be hit. The more draws there are to compete, the more the total demand will be affected. There will be some small repercussions, so I would like a quarter of the surplus to go in that direction. In the Union of Voluntary Organisations for the Handicapped there are some very worthy organisations dealing with everything from arthritis to asthma, from palsy to polio, the blind, the deaf, the Irish Cancer Society, the Haemophilia Society, Irish Kidney Association, Irish Society for Autistic Children and so on. These are all deserving causes. A quarter of the proceeds of the lottery would be ample compensation, without affecting the other needy areas.
The two remaining quarters I should like to see going, respectively, to youth and the arts. In the arts we have seen enormous difficulty due to lack of funding of the Arts Council. It is only natural, perhaps, that perceived luxuries like the arts would be hit in a time of economic recession. However, because of the cut-backs to the Arts Council funding the Wexford Opera Festival has been very severely curtailed. I have spoken to the director of that council and money this lottery could give would be deeply appreciated. A quarter would be about fair.
We are not talking about something very middle or upper class, very remote from the ordinary punter, when we are talking about the arts. One must consider the Graffiti organisations and other literary, theatrical and dramatic societies, people who are now making their livelihood out of the arts. Many hundreds of young graduates coming out of third level education with Arts degrees have no particular direction in which to go. This are needs to be developed and is deserving of a quarter of the proceeds.
With regard to youth, we all know the demographic proportions of our population, the million people in education in Ireland and the preponderance of young people. It is very important that the voluntary youth structures, whether the National Federation of Youth Clubs the National Youth Council of Ireland, or the many other subsidiary groups, including scouts, particularly in disadvantaged areas and urban communities should be assisted in their efforts, whether it is in the provision of a premises from which to do administrative work, or helping employment schemes to get off the ground, or ensuring that they get the right blend of partnership with the statutory organisations under the new National Youth Policy. All four of those areas are deserving of the proceeds of the national lottery. I should like the areas of sport, voluntary charities, youth services and the arts specified on Committee Stage.
There are some other areas in relation to the lottery on which I should like to dwell. We are all aware of the demise of the Irish sweepstakes and recognise their role in the past in generating funds for hospitals and in providing employment. One of the major advantages of the sweepstakes was that they attracted sales of tickets abroad, in other words, overseas revenue. I do not see it specified here, but I hope it is the Government's intention and that of the board overseeing the lottery that every effort will be made to attract overseas sales to bring money into this country, assuming that the lure of a big prize would hold equally well for people in Northern Ireland and the Republic. We would then be able to boost prize money as a proportion of total gross sales and generate extra revenue for the good causes I have outlined.
I understand that this lottery will be run under licence from the Minister for a two year period. We had Irish Sweepstakes Limited, An Post and a derivative of Independent Newspapers bidding. The Government were impressed by the presentation of An Post and I must concur. The network of facilities in terms of manpower, offices and sub-post offices of that organisation is unequalled in this country, especially in rural Ireland, as every household in the country is covered by An Post. Local shopkeepers cannot compete with that type of service. At a time when all State organisations are undergoing rationalisation, An Post have here one bright spot and I hope vacancies will be created for people who otherwise might have become unemployed. I have no doubt that Mr. Fergal Quinn and his cohorts and colleagues in An Post have the professionalism required to make this scheme a success.
The Bill states that at least 40 per cent of the surplus is to be given in prize money. Going by the previous provisions in the 1956 Gaming and Lotteries Act and the general run of locally run prize funds, at least 50 per cent would be a more appropriate figure. There should be no element of rip-off perceived by the public. It must be remembered that we already have two State gambling services, one the Prize Bond system and the other the Totalisator Betting Service. It could be argued that both of these present opportunities to the Exchequer to get increased revenue. The Prize Bonds organisation are very staid and conservative in their approach and outlook. With a bit more professionalism and dynamism they could raise substantially increased revenue if they advertised more and if more generous prizes were given.
In relation to the tote services, this potential has not been tapped at all. There is a great need for extra money backing to the racing industry, instead of taking taxes and levies from it. I would like that service computerised so that we would have off-course tote facilities just as we have SP betting offices on a licensed arrangement, so that the off-course punter could participate in tote betting. That would raise extra revenue, because there are certain types of bet such as place betting, forecast betting and the jackpot, which the ordinary punter cannot place except through the tote. I should like an extension of those areas, consistent with the spirit of this Bill. It would give the State a more positive and constructive role in relation to the national gambling that goes on, the State would get a better take and could provide for essential needs.
One of the fall-out effects of this Bill is on voluntary organisations and charities. I am sure all Deputies have received letters and correspondence from the Union of Voluntary Organisations for the Handicapped, which cover at least 30 organisations and are very representative. I understand there was full consultation with the relevant Minister since the lottery was announced in the national plan and it has been agreed to amend section 34 of the 1956 Gaming and Lotteries Act whereby the existing prize limits for bingo and ordinary draws will be increased from £300 to £500. In the Fine Gael draw the prizes are well in excess of that amount.
People hold numbers draws in order to get around the provisions of the Gaming and Lotteries Act. All political parties and many sporting organisations do this. The whole law needs to be up-dated. With the advent of this national lottery the special position of these voluntary and charitable bodies needs to be specifically revised. Damage will be done to their fund-raising programmes, especially those promoting weekly pools and instant number games. I welcome the effort to up-date section 34 of the Gaming and Lotteries Act. It needs to be more specific and to state that special provision will be given to these agencies whereby they will be compensated for any losses arising out of the lottery. I also ask that they be given representation on the board of the company of the lottery.
Turning to the administration of the lottery it is often the case that, where a State organisation runs something like this, the first thing they do is get a head office with very expensive overheads. That is one sure way that this lottery will fail. It is very important to remember that most of the lotteries that are voluntarily run are run on zero overheads. They are run voluntarily by people who give up their own time and their own expenses. If there is a very cumbersome, bureaucratic and expensive administrative system running this lottery, they will run into some fatal errors whereby people will see that their money is not going towards a good cause but is being wasted. I urge An Post, the board which will run the lottery, to have a very thrifty, prudent and tight approach to their overheads.
The people who are already agents for selling weekly tickets who have their own set of clients, should be utilised as well as the employees of An Post. They should try to minimise as much as possible so that it will not be jobs for the boys. I would like to see either at executive level of the company or on the board itself some semblance of the international experience that exists in relation to draws. The Minister outlined in his Second Stage speech that in the United States, Australia, Sweden, across Europe and also in South American countries there is a vast experience of draws and lotteries. It is very important that we try to tap some of that expertise and involve it in the administration of our national lottery.
Fraud can be a problem. It only takes one major fraud for this national lottery to be a disaster for all time. It is very important that people have confidence in the scrutineer provided for under the legislation. I suggest that this person should be somebody such as the Garda Commissioner, the Ombudsman or somebody of independent rank. It is important that the current situation in relation to lotteries be clarified. Over a year ago there was a total limbo in relation to the law. A very famous punter who owned an estate put it up for sale by way of lottery. The tickets were £200 or £400 each. A famous commentator took part in the draw. Later several people were arrested and others absconded. It seemed crazy that the lottery could be held in the first place if it was illegal. There is a loophole that if a small element of the proceeds goes towards some GAA club it becomes legal. That whole position needs to be cleared up. In County Wexford where there is a severe problem with agricultural debts many farmers who had to sell out gave grave consideration to a national lottery in order to raise money for their farms.
It is important that the national lottery is operated in the same way as the petrol coupons where one has to get three Xs in a line on a card. It is important that people have an instant result. As a person who bought sweepstake tickets, I did not find it very exciting. People knew that the draw was to take place in a week's time but invariably the closing date was extended. When the draw came up one did not know whether or not one had won. It was never clearly publicised especially if a person drew a non-runner or a horse that was not going to run in the race. It did not make dramatic news and therefore you had to work on the assumption that you had lost. I hope this lottery, especially in its initial stages, will be simple and that people will know instantly whether they have won or lost.
There are certain quiz programmes on television which are in limbo at present. Gay Byrne, Mike Murphy and Derek Davis are regularly whining, with some justification, about losing their draws on RTE. It seems that the Gaming and Lotteries Act is unworkable or is unclear in its operation. It seems foolish in a time of high crime to have the gardaí overly involved in this area. Once the lottery gets going perhaps a number could be drawn every Sunday evening before the 9 o'clock News so that people would know exactly where they stood and would not be in doubt as to whether they had won or lost.
I hope the lottery will have a good regional spread. I hope the people adopt the national lottery. I wish it well. I hope this House of the Oireachtas retains its right to vet the lottery. Often when new State organisations and semi-State bodies are set up they grow beyond their particular stature and become a monster which it is hard for this House to control. We set up committees of public accounts and on public expenditure but they never seem to grapple with the problems. I hope this structure will always be small and flexible enough to be answerable to this House. I hope the two year trial period will be fully exercised so that, after two years, if other people can come up with a better idea for a lottery than An Post, they will be given consideration. I wish the lottery success. I hope the Minister when replying can give a commitment that the proceeds will be divided equally between sporting organisations, for capital expenditure, for youth organisations, for the arts and for voluntary bodies and charities who will have losses because of the effect this lottery will have on their existing draws.