asked the Minister for Finance in relation to semi-State companies (a) if privatisation of any firm is under consideration by the Government and (b) the way in which it is intended to finance the expansion of semi-State companies to provide the additional jobs promised in the Programme for National Recovery; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Semi-State Companies.
3.
The answer to (a) is no. In the case of Irish Life, the position in relation to that company was outlined in my reply to a question on 5 November 1987.
As regards (b), the proposals for job creation submitted by the various State companies and listed in the Programme for National Recovery, these will, as stated in the programme, be evaluated by reference to criteria of economic viability. The financing of the projects in question will be a matter for the bodies concerned. I would expect, however, that as these projects will only proceed if commercially viable the necessary funding will be secured on commercial grounds. In certain cases EC funds will be available.
With regard to the commercial State sector generally I made it clear to the House in April last, when the issue of privatisation was debated, that the Government believe that an efficient and profitable semi-State sector can be a major instrument for economic development and employment. It was in the light of this belief that the Taoiseach sought from the State bodies the proposals for development to which I have already referred. The Government believe, however, that the commercial State bodies must be operated with as much regard to efficiency and to commercial realities as their counterparts in the private sector. A great deal of responsibility for their future development rests, therefore, with the boards and management of the companies concerned.
I want to thank the Minister for his clear and succinct reply to (a). He says that the Government are not considering the privatisation of any firm. I am not clear as to the Minister's reply given on 5 November in regard to Irish Life. Perhaps the Minister would repeat that. In regard to (b), again I wholeheartedly agree with the Minister in regard to the efficiency and profitability of commercial State companies. That has to be one of the criteria involved. In order to enable them to be so, is the Minister prepared to give them the freedom to compete without restrictions with the private sector? As the Minister is well aware, there is always an outcry when the public sector goes into direct competition with the private sector so could the Minister repeat what the position is in regard to Irish Life?
I accept the second part of the Deputy's statement. I do not think there is any necessity to reply to it. I will give the reply to the question that was asked of me so that I will be giving an authoritative and correct reply to part (a) of Deputy De Rossa's question. The reason I refer to Irish Life is that I was asked specifically on 5 November about the proposal to sell shares in Irish Life and the answer I gave was that no decision had been taken on the matter, that proposals by Irish Life for reorganisation of their capital structure were being examined and that any decision by Government would be taken on the basis of what was best in the national interest. Therefore, the answer is no but the qualification or clarification is on the basis of the reply I gave on 5 November to a specific question about Irish Life.
Reorganisation of capital structure could be privatisation. Is that correct? Does it mean the same thing, or could it mean the same thing?
What it might mean is being examined.
The possibility of privatisation is being examined.
No, I did not say that. I said the organisation of capital structure is being examined.
And one of the possibilities in regard to the reorganisation of capital structure would be to privatise. Is that not one of the options open to the Minister?
That is a view expressed by the Deputy.
It is an option that is there and the Minister does not admit to considering it. All I want to know is if, in getting advice on this — and I am sure the Minister has been because the negotiations have been going on for quite a while now — the Minister is getting advice and information other than from the chief executive of Irish Life who seems to be the main beneficiary of privatisation? Is the Minister getting other advice?
In relation to any questions arising about any of the semi-State companies, the expert advice and opinions available in the Department and outside it as well as within the State bodies concerned will always be considered.
(Limerick East): Will the Minister confirm that an official of his Department is at present putting together a position paper on the general area of privatisation and the possibility of offering shares in commercial State bodies to the general public? Could he inform the House when he expects to have this paper before him and if it will provide him with the basis of another Government U-turn when he gets it?
The answer to the first part of the question is no and the second part does not arise.
In relation to the semi-State sector, would the Minister reveal to the House at this stage what is the great job creation project outlined in paragraph 16 of the national plan for the semi-State bodies, Aer Lingus, the ESB, Bord na Móna and the Sugar Company? What is this product? Surely the House is entitled to know, if we are to become shareholders in another semi-State project, what product is involved. As one cynic put it to me, is it a turf-powered drinks trolley for aircraft or something like that?
That is very facetious.
It is very hard to see what these four companies have in common that would be of great employment potential in the mechanical engineering sector. Will the Minister tell us now what is involved?
The sooner the Deputy puts down a question in that regard, the sooner I shall be able to give him the full details. So far as the overall job targets set in relation to the area of semi-State bodies are concerned, I am quite convinced that these will be achieved. The bodies concerned have been consulted and they, too, are convinced that they can and will be achieved.