Vol. 379 No. 4
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the total estimated number of Irish persons out of status in the United States; the progress which has been make in discussions with the US authorities regarding the possibility of regularising their position; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
19.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the steps the Government have taken to alleviate the hard-ships a large number of those who have emigrated are encountering in the countries to which they emigrated; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
35.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the present position of the undocumented Irish in the United States following the successful passage of the Kennedy-Simpson Bill through the Senate.
42.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if his officials have now established a definite figure for the number of Irish citizens who are currently illegally in the United States; if his consular staff are improving contacts in this field; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I wish to take Questions Nos. 7, 19, 35 and 42 together.
The Central Statistics Office do not compile statistics on the number of Irish citizens who emigrate to specific destinations and consequently details are not available of the numbers who have emigrated to the United States. Even an accurate estimate is difficult because of the fact that many who emigrate to the US are out of status and do not feature in official US data. However, taking the total net emigration estimates produced by the Central Statistics Office up to April last and subtracting estimates of movement towards Britain and other destinations, the number of such citizens could be of the order of 40,000 to 50,000.
Such figures clearly point to the existence of a very real problem for a large number of our citizens in the United States. Since taking office the Government have devoted considerable time and effort to this issue. Our approach has been threefold: first, to develop our advisory services and to co-ordinate the activities of bodies working in the welfare area; second, to encourage city and church authorities to develop their welfare services; and third, to encourage moves for legislative reform.
In so far as advisory and welfare services are concerned, we have set up immigration working committees under the auspices of our Consulates General at New York and Boston, increased the staff of our Consulate General at New York, and extended the advisory services provided by our consulates. I am satisfied that the services provided by all our offices are being availed of by a substantial number of out of status Irish citizens. We have also had discussions with city and church authorities in New York and Boston who have introduced or developed programmes for illegal immigrants in those cities.
In relation to legislative reform the Government, in the past 12 months, have had discussions with representatives of the US Administration and prominent Irish-American politicians. The basic problem is that US immigration law does not provide opportunities for many of our immigrants to regularise their status. Accordingly, the Government have, from the outset, encouraged our friends in Congress to seek to have the legislation reformed. For this reason we warmly welcomed the introduction of the original Kennedy-Donnelly proposals last year and more recently the achievement of Senators Edward Kennedy and Alan Simpson in having their Bill passed by an overwhelming majority in the US Senate. A similar measure has now been introduced in the House of Representatives and plans are already advanced to have this considered. The objective is to have an agreed Bill passed by both Houses of Congress by the end of this present congressional session.
From our point of view the most significant aspect of the Kennedy-Simpson Bill is the creation of a new independent category of 55,000 visas to be distributed annually on a points basis. I am hopeful that Irish citizens will be able to avail of a substantial proportion of these to enable them to live and work legally in the United States.
As regards other countries Deputies will be aware that the major destination for Irish emigrants continues to be Great Britain. The Government are very conscious of the problems faced by many of our citizens who emigrate to that country. To help alleviate their problem the Minister for Labour has provided £250,000 this year for funding the provision of welfare services through the Dion Committee which operates under the auspices of our embassy in London. The committee, which consists of representatives of the Irish community in Britain, a representative of the Minister for Labour and embassy officials, maintains close contact with Irish welfare centres throughout Britain. In this way it stays in touch with the situation relating to Irish emigrants in that country and endeavours to provide help where it is most needed.
As regards other destinations, our embassies in the countries in question are, of course, always available for advice about living and working conditions in their countries of accredition should they be contacted by Irish citizens. However, I understand that, apart from the United States and Britain, there is no evidence that any significant body of Irish citizens is encountering real problems in their adopted country.
I would like to thank the Minister for his long and detailed reply. I may have missed the point, but have the Irish Government approached the United States authorities regarding an amnesty for those who emigrated between 1982 and 1987?
This would require an amendment of the law, a reforming of the legislation. It is what we have been at for the past 12 months. I have taken a wide range of advice on this matter at all levels particularly in the United States. The almost unanimous view is that the way to go about it is the way proposed in the Kennedy-Donnelly, now the Simpson-Kennedy, legislation which will provide 55,000 visas per year for what are called the traditional seed countries in accordance with certain training, educational, age and language criteria. Under these criteria we rate very highly, so the expectation is that, of the 55,000 visas a year allocated to seed countries, we should qualify for about 10,000 per year, and that should take up the backlog of those who are there out of status or illegal at the moment. Ways and means of inducting them into the system of application under the new legislation are now being discussed by our friends in Congress. The granting of amnesties, as the Deputy has suggested, would have to be done on a general basis across the board. It could not be done particularly for the Irish or any other race within the context of the United States approach. So the approach we are adopting is one of maximising the Irish take-up of visas, giving us a certain advantage on the basis of the criteria I mentioned while not going down the amnesty road which would have to be generalised and include every race and every nation. The United States would not, under any circumstances, tolerate selection of a particular race or nation or ethnic group for amnesty.
Under the original Donnelly legislation of three years ago emigrants who were out of status in America were entitled to apply for visas as well, and the intention of the House of Representatives at the time was that there should be no problem about these people getting visas. But when it came to the implementation of that legislation there were considerable difficulties for individual emigrants. The Minister and the Department will be aware of what I am talking about. Would the Minister take a note of all this and talk to the Administration in the US with a view to ensuring that when the Kennedy-Simpson legislation is passed these difficulties will not arise? While the intention was that those who were out of status should be allowed to become in status, if that is the correct word, it did not work out that way and I would not like to see the same thing happen under this new legislation.
The Deputy is right in that the Donnelly legislation to which he refers was a "lottery legislation" which was once-off legislation and there was not a full take up of it. We are looking at this matter very closely. I agree with the Deputy that there appears to be a problem with people coming forward. We discussed this with various Irish American societies, churches, trade unions, the Administration and politicians seeking to adopt ways and means of encouraging Irish emigrants who are out of status to come forward to participate in this new scheme. The difference is that the new scheme will be a permanent ongoing scheme. The scheme to which Deputy Barry refers was welcome, but it was a once-off scheme. If the present attitude prevails it will be disappointing as there will not be a full take up of the 10,000 visas and this will have to change.
There is a lot of fear among the out of status emigrants.
That is one of the factors that I feel both our consulates, the Churches in the various dioceses, the social welfare bodies and the Irish-American organisations generally will have to address. They must devise ways and means of encouraging young people to come forward and participate in what will be a permanent scheme of legislation to meet their interests.
It needs a little more than that. The State Department need to implement the spirit of the legislation.
Above all else they, as the governing administration body, have to be induced to be as helpful as possible and that can be done to a greater degree once the legislation is in place. The first Donnelly lottery Bill was just for one year. This legislation will be permanent. Hopefully it will go through Congress this session to be signed by the President. We will certainly take up Deputy Barry's suggestion with the US.
In the present circumstances there are a lot of young people over there who are under pressure as a result of the new laws which compel employers to report the out of status people to the Committee on Crime. Can the Minister say when some progress will be made in having that situation rectified to take such pressure off those people?
That aspect tends to be highlighted when it arises. But our information is that it is not happening very often. Only two cases have come to light and naturally they would get publicity. Our main representation to the State Department is that the legislation should go through now. It will be there by the end of the year. We have put that point of view through our Embassy to the State Department.
Would the Minister indicate if he or his Department have given any consideration to the recent suggestion that some financial assistance should be given to would-be emigrants to tide them over their initial stay in America?
I thought that suggestion came from the Archbishop in the Deputy's area. It is a separate question.
