asked the Minister for Defence the number of Defence Force personnel on duty in prisons arising directly from the prison officers' dispute; and the estimated weekly cost to his Department of providing such personnel.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Force Personnel on Prison Duty.
8.
(Limerick West): The average number of personnel of the Defence Forces committed daily to duties in prisons arising from the dispute in question was 300. The additional weekly cost to my Department of providing such personnel is estimated at £28,000.
Will the Minister agree that, in conjunction with the response given by the Minister for Justice on 10 May, the additional estimated cost per week to that Department was £170,000, that the overall figure to Government approached £200,000 per week, and this represents a very different picture from that previously indicated and that the Government were saving money by reason of the prison officers' dispute? Will the Minister agree that this dispute could have been resolved at a very early stage without any loss of revenue to the Government?
The Deputy is injecting new matter into the question which seems to be the responsibility of another Minister.
I am putting the proposition to the Minister that this dispute could have been resolved at a very early stage at a great saving to the Exchequer.
This seems to be leading to argument.
Does the sum which the Minister mentioned include an allowance for the men serving?
(Limerick West): It is not included in the sum.
Will the Minister agree that the role of the Army in recent weeks could only be interpreted in the broadest sense as an aid to the civil power? Men on Border duty get a special allowance and, therefore, will he agree that the men who served in the prisons should have been given an allowance equal to that paid to men serving on the Border?
(Limerick West): A special allowance was given to Army personnel who served in the prisons. However, it is exclusive of the special allowance which is £9.71 per day from Monday to Saturday and £19.42 for a Sunday.
Is that part of the sum of £28,000 to which the Minister referred?
(Limerick West): No, it is not part of that sum.
Surely that is an extra charge on the Department over the Estimate for 1988?
(Limerick West): The special allowance to the military personnel concerned constitutes an extra sum.
The Minister did not answer the question he was asked. What was the extra charge to his Department in respect of this allowance?
(Limerick West): The Deputy asked about the estimated weekly cost to my Department of providing such personnel. I pointed out that the special allowance to the military personnel concerned is paid anyhow.
Question No. 9, please.
It is very difficult to understand what the Minister is saying. He was asked about the extra cost of supplying personnel and he said that part of that cost is a special allowance because they were doing this duty.
What makes up the sum of £24,000?
Should that have been included in the extra cost to the Department and, if not, what makes up the £24,000?
(Limerick West): The additional weekly cost to my Department is estimated at £28,000.
Where did that money come from?
(Limerick West): It is made up of the special allowances paid to personnel.
What personnel?
(Limerick West): I am talking about allowances to military personnel which are in excess of the amount I have just stated.
We cannot remain interminably on this question.
The Minister is not giving information.
The Deputy has a way out of that if he wants to pursue it.
Am I correct in saying that the special allowance of £28,000 includes special allowances?
(Limerick West): It is a special allowance for prison service. I have given the Deputy the rates for a week.
Is that over and above the sum of £28,000?
(Limerick West): Yes.
What does that comprise?
(Limerick West): The sum of £28,000 is the cost to my Department of the provision of personnel.
What does it comprise?
(Limerick West): The military allowance——
I thought there was no military allowance——
We will have to debate this matter another time.
(Limerick West): Personnel of the Defence Forces up to the rank of captain are entitled to a military allowance. If they are on Border or prison duty they get another allowance which I have just outlined.
I am totally confused.
By virtue of the fact that 300 troops had to be deployed to the prisons, has there been any reduction in the other duties being carried out by the Defence Forces, such as cash escorts, Border patrol and security duties?
(Limerick West): No, there has been no reduction in these areas.
Does that mean that the incidence of those other duties have fallen more frequently and heavily on the remaining personnel?
(Limerick West): That could be the case.