asked the Minister for Defence whether the Army Engineering Corps has the expertise and resources to allow it take control of the national power system in an emergency; whether a modern army should have the capacity to maintain essential supplies; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - National Power Emergency.
13.
(Limerick West): As I have stated in reply to previous questions raised by the Deputy, the Corps of Engineers do not have the expertise necessary to operate the ESB generating stations. As regards the question of the Army maintaining essential supplies, the position is that the Government have in specific emergency situations in the past directed that the Defence Force should assist in maintaining supplies and services essential to the life of the community. The provision of such assistance at any given time is, understandably, dependent on the availability of resources and skills within the force and having regard to prior operational commitments. A notable example was where the Army provided an emergency fire service in Dublin and Dún Laoghaire during the firemen's strike earlier this year.
The Minister's reply has again confirmed that the Army do not have the capacity to man ESB power stations and provide an electricity supply when there is an emergency or a strike. Is the Minister satisfied that this State should be left with no defence and no alternative plans in the event of an emergency arising? If the Minister accepts what I have said would he not consider that he is grossly negligent in his duties to allow that situation to prevail?
(Limerick West):“No” is the answer to the last part of the Deputy's question. A committe under the Department of Energy constantly deals with this question. The situation is monitored from time to time. I am telling the Deputy the situation as it prevails at the present time. We cannot afford to have another body standing by in the event of an emergency that may never happen.
Can we afford not to have a body standing by? I am not aware that the Army are standing by. They have other duties to perform in the normal course of events. Surely the Minister should ensure that the army will be trained and given the relevant expertise to go into our power stations and operate them in the event of an emergency? Does the Minister not agree that every other European country has such a capacity available and would the Minister not further consider that a modern army should be equipped to man power stations? I have made the point about the Minister being grossly negligent in his duties in not ensuring——
We are having to contend here with a large element of repetition.
Has the Minister had discussions with the ESB on this matter and, if so, will the inform the House of the outcome? If there is difficulty in having a training programme implemented with the ESB, would the Minister not consider having the Army trained abroad——
Please, Deputy O'Malley, these questions are too long and they are becoming argumentative. The Deputy is tending towards speech making.
——so that they would have the capacity to go in and operate the power stations in the event of an emergency arising?
(Limerick West): As Minister for Defence I have constant discussions with the Minister for Energy on that situation.
What is the use of discussions without the capacity?
(Limerick West): The ESB have approximately 700 engineers out of a total workforce of approximately 11,000 and there are 27 generating stations. That will just give the Deputy an idea of the magnitude of the operation.
Stations which the Army cannot operate. Would the Minister answer the question?
A Cheann Comhairle, I want to ask one question.
I will allow Deputy O'Malley a very brief and relevant question, please.
May I ask the Minister to reply to the other questions I put to him? Has he had discussions with the ESB? Has he established——
We are having further repetition.
——that there is difficulty on the part of the ESB in taking in Army officers to have them trained? If that is the case, would he consider having them trained abroad?
(Limerick West): As the Deputy knows, this is a very sensitive area and I have no intention of commenting on his remarks.
The Minister is negligent in his duty.
A brief supplementary from Deputy Bell.
We would prefer if the Army did not have to do these jobs.
So would I.
If and when they have to, would the Minister agree that they should get the same pay and allowances as their counterparts in these essential services? Is this being covered and considered——
This is an extension of the subject matter. I am calling Question No. 14.