Austin Deasy
Question:12 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Education if, at present, it is compulsory to have at least one modern continental language to qualify as a primary teacher; and, if not, whether she has any plans to rectify the situation.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Primary Teacher Qualifications.
Modern continental languages are not a required part of the qualifications of primary teachers. Continental languages do not form part of the primary school curriculum, and the Curriculum Review Body recommended against the inclusion of a third language in the curriculum. In the circumstances, I have no plans at this time to change this aspect of primary teacher qualifications, but the matter will be kept under review.
That is an astounding revelation. Surely the Minister is ashamed of herself? Even considering the recommendation of the curriculum review body does the Minister not consider that at least one European language is essential for every boy and girl coming out of school?
I am amazed that the Deputy should say this is an astounding revelation, because the Deputy was a member of Cabinet for four years during which time it was not a requirement for primary teachers.
I was dealing with Agriculture, not Education.
Surely matters such as this would have come to the Deputy's attention during that period.
The Minister is on the defensive.
After all, we read in Gemma's book how often Education was discussed at Cabinet and how all the members took such an intense interest in it.
Wait until we read Mary's book.
Having said that, let me say that I was slightly disappointed at the curriculum review body's report which stated clearly that contrary to what was the perceived opinion we have two languages in our primary schools. It is often quoted that children in other European countries are proficient in two languages, in fact we have two languages in our primary schools. We cannot say we are all for Tír agus Teanga and on the other hand dismiss the use of Irish. We have two languages. The curriculum review body said there was much to be done within the primary school system and much use to which our resources should and must be put. I have taken it on myself to keep that matter under review because, as I said, I was slightly disappointed at that finding of the curriculum review body.
Leithscéal lag.
Ní hea.
The Minister's reply is rather derisory. It is unfortunate the way the Minister tried to throw red herrings across the intent of the original question. Would the Minister not agree that it is essential nowadays that our young people have at least one European language? Would the Minister ensure even if the curriculum review body do not do so — in the latest report which runs to 147 pages there is not one mention of continental languages — that the syllabus for teacher training courses include at least one continental language and that at least one continental language be included in the syllabus for primary school children?
The Deputy's first suggestion is helpful, and my mind had been turning on it, that the teacher training syllabus should be looked at to see if it can be incorporated in it. Perhaps the Deputy's second suggestion would follow from that.
I share the Minister's disappointment that the curriculum review body did not recommend a continental language. Several continental countries make provision for the teaching of two languages other than the home language in primary schools. The French national plan, following a recommendation by its international advisory committee — which I put forward as a member of that committee — has recently incorporated provision for two foreign languages in the primary curriculum. The movement is towards two foreign languages. I do not think anybody would suggest in a country like Ireland which already has English and Irish that we would aim at two but we could reasonably aim at one, bringing us into line with the teaching of three languages which is becoming the norm in continental Europe. I encourage the Minister to follow on the lines which I am glad she is contemplating despite the very disappointing report of the curriculum review body.
I do not regard the report as disappointing but I said that that aspect I found slightly disappointing. I welcome the intervention of Deputy FitzGerald. There are two countries in Europe who teach three languages in their schools. There is a move, as the Deputy rightly stated, towards the provision of a third language in various countries. The debate here has been useful. I particularly welcome Deputy Deasy's suggestion with regard to the syllabus in teacher training colleges and that will be looked at.
I was embarrassed about putting down the question because I thought these things had been done.
Do not ever be embarrassed with me, Deputy Deasy.
Is the Minister aware that some primary schools allow for the teaching of a foreign language, particularly French? In accepting that the demands of trying to cope with two languages is a lot for our pupils and teachers where can a modern language be fitted into the time table? I am very pleased that the Minister is keeping an open mind on this question. Does the Minister see the need to tackle the problem of conformity where some primary schools, of which I am aware, are teaching modern languages, particularly French, on an informal basis?
The Deputy is quite right. The issue of equity would arise where some schools have French while others do not. I can imagine the many debates that will be held here about the 3,500 primary schools and who gave French and who did not. One could then be into the realm of inequity. As Deputy Deasy said, this would in time bring about a conformity in its own way.
I am glad to know the Minister's mind is turning on this matter. The lady is for turning, apparently. If she intends to introduce a modern continental language to the curriculum does she intend to reduce the number of hours and the status of the Irish language within the primary school system as it now stands? Does she regard it as a modern continental language necessary in our schools?
I do not know if the Deputy was in on the debate — of course I welcome his question — when I stated clearly that we had already two languages in our primary schools. There are two schools of thought on this on the benches opposite. It would never be my intention to diminish the status or the number of hours available to the study of Irish.
Is the Minister aware that French is a subject in the teacher training colleges for the B.Ed. and that very useful exchange programmes are taking place between St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, and French equivalents, which is a very worthwhile exercise?
Deputy Deasy asked if it was necessary that a student teacher have at least one modern continental language and my answer was that it was not.