Vol. 404 No. 9
7 Mr. O'Shea asked the Minister for Education if her Department obtained a valuation from the Valuation Office on Carysfort College; the amount of the valuation; when the valuation was obtained; the way in which this valuation compared to the purchase price; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
11 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Education if she sought the advice of the Higher Education Authority prior to agreeing to provide almost £10 million for the re-purchase of Carysfort College for use by University College, Dublin; the advice she received from the authority; if she will outline the person who took the initiative to purchase Carysfort College and who conducted the negotiations with the owner; if she was involved, either directly or indirectly in these discussions.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 11 together. For the purposes of the debate I must address myself to Deputy O'Shea.
On a point of order, is it in order for the Minister to take together two questions about Carysfort College which deal with two separate and distinct aspects of the matter? Surely this is an abuse of Priority Questions to avoid supplementary questions from those of us who have an interest?
It is common and accepted practice in this House.
The purchase price was negotiated by UCD using expertise available to them. This follows normal practice in any such acquisitions by university authorities and the involvement of the Valuation Office did not arise.
The total expenditures involved were £11.7 million, of which the purchase price was £8 million. The additional funds provided were for equipment, upgrading and other costs not related to the purchase price. Towards this figure UCD provided £2 million from private sources and a further £1.75 million was available by way of refund of grant from the Mercy Order.
The question of making the facilities at Carysfort available to UCD has been in question since 1987 when a committee chaired by the then chairman of the Higher Education Authority recommended accordingly. This committee was set up in 1986 following the debacle of the closure.
Protracted discussions took place with the Mercy Order regarding the purchase of the premises and adjoining land. The negotiations eventually broke down because the asking price, and the timescale for consideration were unacceptable. I might add that price was considerably above the price negotiated by UCD.
Any decision to purchase Carysfort and the allocation of funds for that purpose are matters solely for Government. Naturally I kept the Government fully informed of developments regarding Carysfort at all stages, leading eventually to the decision to provide funds to UCD towards the purchase of the college.
I am satisfied that the purchase represents very good value for money. In addition to the teaching facilities, it provides UCD with further residential accommodation, dining facilities, a major sports hall and extensive acreage, all of which will contribute in time to major initiatives in the development of the UCD Business School.
Since I entered office there have been three separate Dáil adjournment debates — February 1989, July 1989 and May 1990 — on this issue. I spoke in all three debates. There was a common thread through the three debates — from the Opposition benches a sustained and clear request to keep Carysfort in educational use and from myself, on behalf of the Government, a recognition of the college as a valuable educational resource and reiteration of our wish to find the best formula for doing so.
Did the Department of Education get a valuation done by the Valuation Office on that property? Do not UCD have a statutory obligation to get a valuation done by the Valuation Office when Exchequer money is being used to buy property to be used by a State institution?
When UCD came to me with a proposal to purchase the property, they would then have used their own expertise to make the valuation. I understand they had technical people with them for that purpose. There is not a statutory obligation.
The Minister did not answer my question. Did her Department get a valuation from the Valuation Office on the Carysfort property?
Is the Deputy referring to the occasion just gone by?
I am asking the Minister if at any stage her Department got a valuation on that property and the amount of that valuation.
Yes. There was a valuation some two years earlier which was a valuation on the land and did not take into account the use of the premises. They discounted the premises. In the second arrangement entered into with UCD they used their technical expertise. I understand they were of the opinion that the price at which it was offered was indeed very good value.
I have to say that if No. 8, the next question, is to be dealt with it must be taken now.
May I raise a further point of order? The Minister did not answer Question No. 11.
The Deputy may not intervene.
Will the Minister not answer Question No. 11?
