Vol. 406 No. 4
17 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East) asked the Minister for Education if she has any proposal to extend the higher education grants scheme to cover students who, being otherwise eligible, attend a recognised university in the United Kingdom; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
The higher education grants scheme and the vocational education scholarship scheme provide that grants shall be tenable in respect of degree and other approved courses of higher education in Ireland. The purpose of this requirement in the schemes is to give financial assistance to eligible students to help them to proceed to a university or other approved third-level course in Ireland.
The total number of students receiving grant aid in universities and other third level colleges in 1985-86 was 24,316 and in 1989-90, 34,518. The payment of a higher education grant may be continued for one year in respect of attendance abroad where (i) the period of study abroad is shown to be an integral part of the student's course, (ii) the period of study abroad is a requirement of the course as laid down by college regulation and (iii) the student continued to be registered at the home university or college. The procedures described above are broadly in line with the terms of the ERASMUS scheme, the purpose of which is to promote third-level student mobility between EC member states.
(Limerick East): I thank the Minister for replying to my question and, indeed, for replying to a whole lot of other questions I did not ask. Is the Minister aware of a very strong campaign in recent years on the part of authorities of United Kingdom colleges to recruit students from this country who are eligible to participate in their courses? Is she also aware of the many applications from Irish students to these colleges and that at present only those students whose parents can afford to pay for them can avail of places in UK colleges when they fail to get places in Ireland?
I can answer the Deputy and I hope I do not give him too much information. It is a long day since I heard a Deputy on any bench complain about getting too many answers, usually Deputies do not get enough. The Deputy asked if I was aware that there is a strong lobby by colleges in the UK. Yes, that has been going on for some time. Over the last two years the numbers of young people availing of such offers in the UK has dropped considerably. I am very glad of that because it means that the increasing number of places which both the universities and the VEC third level colleges have made available here have been taken up by our students. I should also like to inform the House that under the PESP we have outlined 8,800 third level places in the various colleges in this country. The new merger between Thomond and the Universidy of Limerick, talks between the training colleges, the opening of Tallaght Regional College and the expansion of the RTCs under the programme announced today, will result in more third level courses being made available for young people here and quite simply we have the best courses. If we can get together all the places we need there will be no need for anybody to go to the UK to get a better education, they will get it here.
(Limerick East) Would not the Minister agree — I am not apportioning any blame — that the position is that there is a demographic problem here? The position at present is that by and large there are far more applicants than there are places available in Irish third level colleges. At the same time, in the UK universities there are places right across the range of faculties. At the minute only the wealthy in Ireland can afford to take up those places because people——
Let us proceed by way of questions. The Deputy is making a statement.
(Limerick East) Is the Minister aware that children of people who, in this country, would qualify for higher education grants cannot afford to take up places they are being offered in the United Kingdom either on the mainland, or in Queen's University, or in Coleraine, or in one of the Northern Ireland colleges? Secondly, would it not cost the Exchequer much less to actually extend the higher education grant to students who could avail of places in English colleges than to provide extra places in our already overcrowded universities?
In answer to the Deputy's last question I would prefer, as Minister for Education, to be about my business of providing more places here——
But the Minister is not doing it.
(Limerick East) The Minister is not doing that.
——which I am doing. Since the Deputies were last in Government, in 1987, the numbers have increased dramatically. The number of students eligible for third level grants has increased dramatically.
(Limerick East) We know all that but answer the question.
Certainly I will attend to providing more third level places here. I do not see any role as deciding not to provide more third level places and that I would tell the young students to go to the UK. My job is to provide the places here and I have set about doing that.
I am not prepared to remain unduly long on any one question.
(Limerick East) I realise that.
I want to make progress on other questions also and there are Deputies waiting for their questions to be answered. Perhaps we will have a final supplementary from Deputy Noonan.
(Limerick East) I am interested in the manner in which the Minister replies. Is there a rooted ideological objection on her behalf or on behalf of her Government to allow students access to UK universities, or is it simply that she is happy to allow the children of wealthy people to be educated abroad but will not allow the children in ordinary families to be educated abroad?
The Deputy has made an assertion. He seems to have precise knowledge of every student who goes to the UK. It is the Deputy who referred to the children of wealthy parents. I have no ideological hang-up about the matter to which the Deputy referred.
If they have not the money they cannot go.
I have a very strong commitment, which has been evident in the past four years, to providing extra places here and I shall continue to do that.
(Limerick East) The Minister is not doing it.
I will send on my statistics to the Deputy.
I am calling Deputy Owen for a final question.
Is the Minister aware that some courses are not available to our students in Ireland but are available either in the North or across the sea and at the very least in those instances the grants should be extended to allow students to pursue the course they want to pursue and cannot pursue it here?
I am aware there are odd instances but they have become less frequent because the range and diversity of courses provided here, in all our universities and third level colleges, are assuming greater relevance. If a young person requires a particular course he or she should search among the colleges here where, I am quite sure, if they do not find the stated course they will find a route to that course across a range of disciplines in any of our third level colleges.
