Patrick McCartan
Question:15 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Finance if he will outline the progress which has been made with regard to the claim by Oireachtas secretarial assistants for regrading; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Oireachtas Secretarial Assistants.
Following discussions at the Labour Court in October last year, there was agreement between my Department and the union involved that the Institute of Public Administration would be requested to evaluate the changes in the post of Oireachtas secretary taking account particularly of the duties, skills and responsibilities since 1980 to date and that their findings would be discussed at a reconvened conciliation conference in the Labour Court.
The institute agreed to that request and reported to both sides in February this year. Bilateral meetings have since been taking place between my Department and SIPTU at which the implications of those findings have been discussed and, if necessary, further discussions under the auspices of the Labour Court will be held.
Does the Minister accept that it is agreed by Deputies on all sides of the House that the staff who work with Members of this House are inadequately remunerated; that given the remarks made earlier about high standards in high places and the need for the Government to give a lead it is unacceptable that no real effort has been made in the negotiations between the parties and that it now looks as if the staff concerned may be forced once more to disrupt the business of the House in order to make their point? Will he join with me in condemning the fact that his Department have made no real attempt in the negotiations which have taken place to date to resolve this run of the mill dispute? If any outside practitioners were involved it would have been disposed of a very long time ago.
I have no intention of intervening in an industrial relations dispute. As I said, the employees will be going back to the Labour Court on Friday next and neither I nor any other Deputy should get involved as there are procedures laid down for processing such claims. The Deputy, as a former trade union secretary, will be fully aware of this. It would be totally inappropriate for me or for anyone else to get involved while the talks are continuing.
A short question from Deputy Quinn.
I appreciate that the Minister may feel constrained from commenting on the dispute but may I ask him if he would agree that part of the problem is that the scheme in question has no statutory basis and this has led to ambiguity and different interpretations of the various responsibilities? If he accepts that this is the case would he indicate if the legislation dealing with allowances for Oireachtas Members which will be brought before the House under his name will seek to put this secretarial scheme on a statutory basis as has been promised?
I am afraid the Deputy is extending the scope of the question.
As there is a question about that matter on the Order Paper I do not intend to pre-empt the answer except to say that the scheme has no statutory basis. To my knowledge there is no widespread agreement between all Deputies in the House. The secretaries are there to look after Deputies' correspondence and constituency activities. There is no agreement between the Members of the House, to my knowledge, that the situation should be changed.
We are not going to have a discussion on this matter now. The Minister has answered the question. Supplementary questions should seek elucidation of what the Minister has said. We cannot afford to have a debate on this matter now.
It is not a debate; we are seeking information.
(Limerick East): Would the Minister make arangements to have all relevant information communicated to the parties, through the party Whips, in particular the outturn of the negotiations at the Labour Court next Friday, as the situation develops?
I would have no difficulty with relating information but I am sure the Deputy will accept that the different positions should not be made known while sensitive negotiations are going on. Within those confines I will keep the parties informed of the position.
The Minister stated in his reply that there is no agreement between the parties on the desired secretarial scheme. What information has led him to that view?
The Minister responded to a hypothetical question presented by the Deputy. The Chair must be concerned that questions relate to the question which has been tabled.
The Minister quite rightly declined to answer an industrial relations related question but I asked him, in his capacity as Minister for Finance, if the legislation which he will sponsor and which has been promised will put that scheme on a statutory basis? Question No. 26 in the name of my colleague, Deputy Howlin, which I drafted specifically asks that question.
That is correct.
I presume I will get the reply in due course but the Minister then went on to say that the parties have not reached an agreement on this matter and I asked him what information led him to that view as that is not my understanding. I am seeking information.
As the Deputy is aware, Deputies, through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, want this legislation brought forward. This matter cannot be dealt with in isolation. It will have to be considered in ongoing discussions and be the subject of review within the parties.
What does that mean?
I do not think it would be in anyone's interest to hold up the legislation pending a resolution of this problem.
Therefore it is not going to be put on a statutory basis?
Given the Minister's reference to ongoing negotiations and the session in the Labour Court tomorrow can he say to the staff concerned through this House that they can have reason to believe that tomorrow's session will be more fruitful as the union concerned assure me that the Department have made no effort to resolve the dispute? Can the Minister direct his staff to make a serious and meaningful effort to resolve this dispute at the discussion tomorrow in the Labour Court?
The information available to me is different from that given by the Deputy in the House. Meaningful discussions have taken place between the management and the trade unions dealing with this matter. I am quite certain that Members and secretaries are fully aware of the developments taking place and I cannot tell them anything they do not know already. The management and unions have to solve the problem. The Deputy is trying to misrepresent the situation by suggesting that the talks have broken down.
That concludes Question Time for today.