Roger T. Garland
Question:10 Mr. Garland asked the Minister for Labour the number of people currently engaged in participation in FÁS courses and social employment schemes throughout the country.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - FÁS Mainline Programmes.
At the end of May, which is the most up-to-date information available, the number of persons participating in FÁS mainline programmes was as follows:
|
Training, |
14,100 |
|
Social Employment Scheme, |
10,800 |
|
Teamwork, |
959 |
|
Employment Incentive Scheme, |
1,158 |
|
Enterprise |
1,110 |
|
28,127 |
Will the Minister agree that the figure of 28,000 people on these schemes gives a false picture of the true unemployment figures? How many of those people will be in meaningful employment within, say, six months of completion of their courses? Will the Minister agree that many of those schemes, particularly the social employment scheme, are make-work schemes and are there to massage the unemployment figures?
I do not agree with anything the Deputy said. Most of the people in training are young people who are in skills training and apprenticeship training and a high proportion of them obtain employment. About 2,500 of them are on the Youthreach Programme. That is a more difficult group because from the outset we have not set the criteria of their ability to obtain jobs as part of the scheme. The courses are there to help people. By and large the work done by those on the social employment scheme is good for the environment and socially. Very useful work is done with communities within groups and within sporting groups. Most Members will agree it is beneficial work. A good proportion of those who participate on the social employment scheme get into gainful employment, depending on the economy. In 1988-89 those people did very well but this year the uptake is slower. A big number of those who participate in the teamwork scheme, which is not a big scheme, obtain employment. The employment incentive and the enterprise schemes is not a big scheme directly assist people to get into employment by being employed directly by an employer who is paid a subsidy or being trained and then setting up their own small business. I reject absolutely that the schemes are in any way a waste of time or a massage of the unemployment figures.
I appreciate the Minister may not have all the information available to him but can the Minister tell the House the number of people in Dublin who are on the social employment scheme? Secondly, is the Minister concerned that the ESRI's recent report pointed out that in the long term neither training nor temporary employment schemes were found to have a significant impact on the probability of a person being in a job one year after finishing involvement in such schemes? Has the Minister any comment to make on that? Will the Minister indicate what further research and follow-up will be done with regard to those who had been engaged in such schemes over the past 18 months to ascertain what their job position is one year after completing such schemes?
The Deputy has asked three questions. First, I do not have the exact figure of those in Dublin who are on the social employment scheme. In the Dublin Corporation area nobody is involved because they do not operate the scheme. In the county council area a greater number are involved. A large number of voluntary community bodies in Dublin use the scheme. Regarding the ESRI report, the Department will look carefully at the suggestions they made. I am of the view that we can continually change and improve the curriculum of some of the schemes. I have done away with many of the schemes which were of no benefit. We have grouped many of the schemes because of demands in other areas. We want to be sure we get value for money, except in the social area. We provide a great amount of training under the Youthreach Programme and for the travelling community. I do not think the same criteria should be used in regard to them. I can assure the Deputy that the ESRI recommendations will be closely examined.
I accept that the biggest tragedy is that at the end of the FÁS courses there is not usually employment for the people who go through the courses. Will the Minister comment on the criticism of investment in education and training, published recently by the CII? Is there a danger, notwithstanding the revamp of the FÁS courses, to which he has referred, that they are too much fund driven and that there is, perhaps, a necessity for us to look at both the suitability of investment in education and training for a modern industrial economy, of the type of education and who funds it?
I have not heard either the Minister for Industry and Commerce or the Taoiseach comment to the effect that they will be included in either the review of industrial policy or in the terms of reference of the task force under the Central Review Committee.
I have read the CII's recommendations. Unfortunately, most of the suggestions made were in the education area and I cannot comment on them. That is a matter for the Minister for Education. We have always worked with the CII and have tried a number of their suggestions. I am grateful for the co-operation of Liam Connellan on a number of schemes. We took people from schemes and trained them to the criteria of industry on the basis that they would be placed in industries nominated by the CII. This works very well in other countries where the private and the public sectors work together. Individuals are trained and it is known where they are going at the end of the scheme. Last year we designated 1,000 companies to take a named person. The difficulty in the period 1982-90 — and this is referred to in the ESRI report — is in getting employers to take on unemployed people. They will always take people who have higher educational ability, or higher standards and who have been in employment or want to move to a better job. It is extremely difficult to get employers to take the people who are normally involved in the schemes. One has to relate their policies to the labour market policies and that involves FÁS and the CII working together.
I am concerned about the lack of progress on questions today; ten or 11 questions in 40 minutes is surely inadequate. I should like Members to help me expedite matters and go on to deal with other questions also.
As part of the initiative to stem the growth of unemployment the Government announced recently that they would allocate 2,000 extra places for social employment schemes. Have these places been allocated and taken up? Is the Minister in a position to comment on the fact that numerous social employment schemes which were sanctioned for County Kerry have not yet gone ahead although they were ready to go ahead last January? Over 300 jobs depend on these schemes going ahead.
Matters appertaining to Kerry require a separate question.
An additional quota of 2,500 people for the various regions has been approved by FÁS executives and, therefore, each region has an additional quota.
Deputy McCormack rose.
The Deputy heard me saying earlier that I wanted to make progress in relation to questions.
I did not get a chance to ask a question.
I will call the Deputy if he will be brief.
While acknowledging the good work of the social employment schemes, will the Minister agree that 10,800 people on these and FÁS schemes are not getting any training for future employment, apart from being taken off the live register?
Because of the new EFS regulations we must build a training element into the scheme. I have had the pleasure of visiting the locations of hundreds of schemes round the country. Normally craftspeople are taken on these schemes to help people learn and develop skills.