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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 31 Oct 1991

Vol. 411 No. 8

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Forces Training.

Michael Ferris

Question:

7 Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the entitlement of a member of the second line reserve to undertake annual paid training, as regards hours attended and Defence Force regulations; the number of members of the Reserve who were unable, last year, to undertake paid annual training due to insufficiency of financial resources available to the Defence Forces; whether such members, who do not attend a course of paid training, can receive their annual training bounty and if so whether this has been paid in (1) 1988, (2) 1989 and (3) 1990 and the amount paid; and whether such a situation will occur this year.

Emmet Stagg

Question:

63 Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline when the two week camp for the second line reserve was terminated; the reasons advanced for the termination at the time; whether any evaluation has been undertaken by the directors of reserve forces or training into the consequences of such cutback since then; if so if he will outline their recommendations to improve matters; whether he has considered bringing back the two week camp; the additional cost of a further weeks camp divided between (1) rations, (2) pay and (3) other costs; the cost of the current one week camp; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Michael Bell

Question:

116 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Defence if he has any plans to revise the current policy of one week's annual training camp for the FCA; his views on whether it is possible to implement an effective training programme which would normally include range practices and that the standard of training for the force has suffered badly as a result of this continuing policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 63 and 116 together.

Defence Force Regulations provide that members of An Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil and An Slua Muirí may, with their own consent, be required to attend in each training year for a course of training for a continuous period of not less than seven days, and not more than 21 days, in the case of the FCA, or not more than 14 days in the case of An Slua Muirí, at such times and places as the relevant military authorities may determine. While members who wish to attend for such training are facilitated as far as possible many, due to business or other commitments, are unable to make themselves available.

Since 1983, it has been found necessary, as part of the Government's programme for achieving reductions in the level of public expenditure, to curtail annual training for members of the Reserve having regard to the provisions in the Defence Vote for the training of the Reserve. Accordingly, each year since 1983 the annual training period for members of the FCA and the Slua Muirí has been reduced to seven days.

The position in regard to annual training is kept under review with the objective of restoring the normal arrangements as soon as circumstances allow. I am satisfied that a satisfactory standard of training is being maintained. During 1990 about 8,070 members of the FCA and Slua Muirí attended for courses of annual training and instruction and a further 2,500 performed casual security duties.

A gratuity is issued to members of the FCA and Slua Muirí who complete a course of annual training or other full-time instruction and in addition they are paid at the same rates of pay as those that apply to corresponding ranks in the Permanent Defence Force. In addition to attendance at such training or instruction it is necessary for each member to have attended certain local training parades or their equivalent in field days, overnight camps or security duties in order to qualify for payment of the gratutity.

Notwithstanding the reduced period of annual training that has applied in the case of the FCA and Slua Muirí since 1983 the gratuity payable to qualified members who complete the maximum permissible period of training is at the full rate, and not at the reduced rate that would normally apply in respect of attendance for the shorter period. The same arrangements apply this year.

The current cost of annual training is estimated at just over £2 million approximately and the estimated additional cost of restoring the normal annual training arrangements would also be £2 million approximately. It is not possible to compute the additional cost of rations and other costs as they are not accounted for separately.

Notwithstanding the detailed response from the Minister the fact remains that there are men with many years' service and the required attendance record who have been deprived of going to camp due to financial restraints. May I ask the Minister whether those people will receive their gratutity and when was the gratuity last increased?

I acknowledge that it is desirable that training be extended from seven to 14 days — this is one of the objectives that we will endeavour to meet — but it is not possible financially to do so in the present climate. I would be less than honest if I was to come in here and make promises that we cannot fulfil. We have to curtail expenditure and we do not have the money to extend the training period. However, we are satisfied that the training being provided is adequate to deal with the situation. I do not have the information as to when the gratuities were last increased but I will communicate that information to the Deputy.

Apart from the economic aspects of this matter, as one who served for 29 years in the Reserve Defence Force I can tell the Minister that one week's training is a worthless exercise. That is recognised by all ranks within the force and has been so since 1983. I cannot say that the present Minister is responsible for that position. The measure was introduced by one of his predecessors and has been in force since then. It is accepted that one week's training is totally inadequate, achieves virtually nothing and is, in my opinon, a waste of time and effort on the part of the Force. I would ask the Minister to give serious consideration to this matter. I think Paddy Donegan was the last Minister to extend the training period. At that stage the FCA received three or four weeks training. Considering the assistance they have to give to the Permanent Defence Force, would the Minister not agree that they could not possibly reach the required standard in rifle marksmanship and weaponry with one week's annual training?

The fact that annual training has been reduced does not mean there is any lack of appreciation on my part or on the part of the Department of the voluntary effort of the members and the contributions they make in their regular attendance at local training and other activities. As I have said, to restore the additional seven days' training would cost in the region of £2 million and it is not possible to provide that money in the present financial climate.

Is the Minister aware of the very low morale that exists in the FCA due to the fact that, first, there are only seven days annual training and, second, despite the Minister's statement that some people are unable to avail of the training because of business or other commitments, quite a number of people are unable to avail of even the seven days annual training because they do not have the necessary finance? As regards those who take up the training is the Minister aware that they do not have the ammunition to do the manoeuvres and undertake the necessary training? Is the Minister aware that during one manoeuvre in the Glen of Imaal they were shouting "bang bang" because they did not have ammunition? That is a fact. That is an awful reflection on the FCA. Does the Minister not agree that at a time when the subversive organisations are recruiting members around the country that the FCA should be in a position to recruit these young men and women rather than having them channelled into subversive organisations?

There is no necessity for the Deputy to be dramatic about this. The fact of the matter is that morale in the FCA is high.

I am not being dramatic, that is the reality.

The Deputy has asked some questions, so let us listen to the replies.

It was a point of information.

From my experience of dealing with the FCA in the short time I have been in the Department I have found, contrary to the Deputy's suggestion, that morale is quite high. In fact I had some very useful meetings with the FCA in various locations around the country.

What about the reduction in Lahinch for starters?

The Deputy will be aware that some discussions have been initiated with a view to setting up a permanent association to deal with the issues that affect the FCA. I had a meeting with some representatives of the FCA at which the initial move was made to set up the permanent association to represent the FCA. Since that time meetings have taken place between representatives of the FCA and officials of my Department and hopefully a permanent representative organisation will be in place very soon. I am sure that that organisation or association will be able to take up many of the issues that are presently causing some anxiety to members of the FCA and hopefully we will be able to find a solution for them.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn rose.

I thought we had dwelt rather long enough on this question.

Is the Minister aware that a battalion in Dublin was on exercises down in the Glen of Imaal, County Wicklow, over the summer months and they did not actually have the ammunition to conduct the manoeuvres.

That is a separate and distinct matter and is worthy of a separate question.

It is very much part of the issues affecting the FCA and the lack of finance for the FCA. Is the Minister aware of this incident?

If the Deputy sends me details of that particular incident I will certainly have it investigated. I recently attended a manoeuvre with members of the Permanent Defence Force and the FCA in a joint operation at Moneypoint to review security and to deal with any emergency that might arise in terms of the security at Moneypoint generating station. I was very impressed not only at the level of expertise available in the FCA and Pemanent Defence Force but also with the level of facilities and equipment available to that unit.

It was a special show for the Minister.

The Deputy is doing no service to the FCA by making these wild and unsustainable allegations.

The Minister has once again evaded the core of the question. Will the Minister give a commitment this afternoon that personnel who request to go on seven days training with the FCA will be afforded the opportunity to do so, irrespective of financial constraints?

We cannot deal with anything irrespective of financial constraints but I will give the Deputy an assurance that I will examine very carefully the views he, Deputy Bell and others are putting forward to see in what we can enhance the training opportunities for those who wish to go on it.

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